Zettelkasten Forum


2nd Edition of the book (German) gets rewritten

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  • @Sascha. Zivon and I have watched hours and hours of Stonnie leading his dogs through his challenges course. We've even tried building one ourselves. I've used so many of his tips in training and he is a funny entertaining character to boot. We love Uncle Stonnie. Just yesterday Stonie posted a video "Is This The Best Puppy In the World?" that featured a sweet malinois.


    @Sascha said:
    Sequences are epistemic tools but not knowledge structures.

    Are you referring to 'sequences' as purely the ordering of things or 'sequence' as the things being ordered? I can envision a 'knowledge structure' where the 'sequence' of things is a major part of the 'knowledge structure' like embryo development. A clearer understanding of how the sequence of the stages occur and their order is to have a clearer knowledge of the structure of embryo development.

    Maybe I'm not clear on your idea here but it makes me think harder about sequences and knowledge.

    Will Simpson
    I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
    kestrelcreek.com

  • @Sascha said:
    3. Third edition... why already planning a third edition? There is quite some material that accumulates that entails a big body of theory that is not already tried and tested. I am not sure if I want to delay the next edition further to cover all that material.

    Have you considered publishing this material as a separate book rather than a third edition of the main book?

  • @Eurobubba said:

    @Sascha said:
    3. Third edition... why already planning a third edition? There is quite some material that accumulates that entails a big body of theory that is not already tried and tested. I am not sure if I want to delay the next edition further to cover all that material.

    Have you considered publishing this material as a separate book rather than a third edition of the main book?

    I thought about that but I like the idea of having one book as my main piece of work in this domain.

    I am a Zettler

  • @Will said:
    @Sascha. Zivon and I have watched hours and hours of Stonnie leading his dogs through his challenges course. We've even tried building one ourselves. I've used so many of his tips in training and he is a funny entertaining character to boot. We love Uncle Stonnie. Just yesterday Stonie posted a video "Is This The Best Puppy In the World?" that featured a sweet malinois.

    "Sweet". Haha. His malinois' seem so nice. At least in front of the camera. Here in Germany, I only see the psychotic version of them. A couple of weeks a ago two I met two of them and even my dog was a bit like "what is this madness?!?!".. :smiley:

    @Sascha said:
    Sequences are epistemic tools but not knowledge structures.

    Are you referring to 'sequences' as purely the ordering of things or 'sequence' as the things being ordered? I can envision a 'knowledge structure' where the 'sequence' of things is a major part of the 'knowledge structure' like embryo development. A clearer understanding of how the sequence of the stages occur and their order is to have a clearer knowledge of the structure of embryo development.

    Maybe I'm not clear on your idea here but it makes me think harder about sequences and knowledge.

    It is my bad. In this thread, I mostly dump thoughts I have during the writing process. That makes some things idiosyncratic. So, some clarifications:

    Knowledge is meant to represent the world in some way. (no philosophical discussions here. We are not in the ivory tower, now). The world is not sequencial but self-referential and complex. Sequences are born when an entity tries to understand the world.

    Your example of the embryo is quite good for that phenomenon. At any stage of development, it is a complex non-sequential being. The sequence in development is either the results of us humans (human embryo, I decided) as a species trying to figure out how to be in this world or rather the result of us mapping the development of the embryo with the help of concepts like time.

    In knowledge work sequence comes into play if you want to speak, to think, to write etc. Sequence is the result of teaching and learning (epistemic actions).

    This is a bit shaky. In German, it is not well settled. Big holes in this claim of mine. :smile:

    I am a Zettler

  • The chapter on ”Structure and Structure Zettel" is finished (as the first rough draft). 7016 words.

    I have to make a decision wether I dedicate an own chapter on Luhmann's Zettelkasten or if I spread my research and elaborations throughout the whole book. The former pushes me in the direction @Eurobubba proposed: A smaller book with supplemental material that is more theoretical.

    I am a Zettler

  • Comparing my thinking in the different languages, I am considering to switch to the following: Just write German and let someone else translate my articles to English.

    I am a Zettler

  • I am on track with the book. This week I will finish "Writing with your Zettelkasten" -- both the part of the course (editing) and the book (drafting).

    100k words for the first draft is still pretty realistic. I aim for less. For comparison: The first edition was 25k words.

    I am a Zettler

  • Deleted a chapter because I wrote myself into a stalemate. Fun part of the story: "Writing with the Zettelkasten" was the title of the chapter.

    I am a Zettler

  • I really like the fact that re-writing is effortless if you have

    1. an outline
    2. prewritten textfragments.

    I used to like the idea that I just copy and paste as much as possible. This has changed over the course of time. Single Zettels that I publish as shortish articles are getting just a short polish. But for books and long-form articles I like to re-write. Each re-writing is a great improvement of the thoughts and ideas I use.

    I am a Zettler

  • The outline is the key to not going crazy. I've been rewriting an article which went from 500 words to 5'000 and now it haunts me and I feel sick if I think about reopening its draft.

    How many times and how hard did you change the outline along the way?

    (please create an ebook of your book! >:) )

  • @Massimo_Curatella said:
    The outline is the key to not going crazy. I've been rewriting an article which went from 500 words to 5'000 and now it haunts me and I feel sick if I think about reopening its draft.

    Just delete the article and start over. :smiley:

    How many times and how hard did you change the outline along the way?

    Once and significantly. :smile:

    (please create an ebook of your book! >:) )

    No. :kissing:

    I am a Zettler

  • For an excellent writing tool, have you tried Scrivener? In addition to having an excellent outline, you can write in text "segments" and can then rearrange, delete, and/or combine them as you wish. The list of the text segments takes over as the outline and keeps you organized. If you write fiction or non-fiction, Scrivener is essential, (you can write in Markdown and then export to almost any format you can think of). Lots of excellent writing tools and features.

  • @GeoEng51 I tried it but was not intrigued. :)


    Only one chapter left: Chosing software. Then the first rough draft is finished.

    I am a Zettler

  • edited September 2020

    @Sascha said:
    Comparing my thinking in the different languages, I am considering to switch to the following: Just write German and let someone else translate my articles to English.

    I would definitely recommend this... Let someone English who speaks fluent German do the translation (that person isn't me :smile:).
    A comma in the wrong place, can completely change how the sentence is written and could cause confusion.
    Not saying that your english isn't good enough, as it's perfectly understandable. But my wife is french, and even though she's lived in the UK for the past 20 years (and speaks better english than many english people I know), she still asks me to proof read some of her more official emails just to make sure they flow correctly and make sense.
    Not that I'm an english major :smile: I do obviously still make mistakes (!!), but I can at least point her at a bit that just doesn't look/sound "right". A native speaker who did a half decent job at school in English, will pick up on these points that might go un-noticed just because the words make sense.

    Edit: I guess the only problem here is that you are relying on someone else doing it... So will it actually ever get done :neutral:
    Done > Perfect

  • @sepuku It will depend on cashflow. I think a professional translator takes a couple 100 bucks per article. :smile:

    I am a Zettler

  • edited September 2020

    @Sascha said:
    @sepuku It will depend on cashflow. I think a professional translator takes a couple 100 bucks per article. :smile:

    @Sascha Crowdfund it? Each of the people "donating" €10/€15 get a translated copy of the book? I'd pay that upfront :smile:

  • @Sascha Just having one or two friends who are native English speakers read an English version of the book would help out. Obviously, it has to get translated first :)

    My wife, who graduated from university in Music (flute, piano and voice), read through my PhD thesis on a relatively obscure topic in geologic engineering (aren't they all obscure?). That was very helpful, even though she knows nothing about engineering. In some ways, that was better, as she was checking not just for grammar and punctuation, but on whether or not a sentence just made sense.

  • I think the first step will be working with a publisher to get the book to the English speaking market. Today or tomorrow I will finish the first draft. After some heavy editing and more polishing I will send out proposals. Then we will see.

    I am drifting away from self-publishing the English version but rather work something out with a professional publisher. All this translation takes too much time and I get too little done.

    I am a Zettler

  • First draft is finished. 54000 words.

    Lol. I wanted to humble brag with the ratio of words of advertising ("Yeah, Zettelkasten. Super! Look at Luhmann! Look here another metaphor why it is awesome!") to words of actually giving advice and knowledge. But: Even more humble brag. There are not words of advertising and they need to inweaved into the book.

    I am a Zettler

  • I decided to append a catalogue of detailed descriptions of work flow cases. Examples include on how to process empirical studies, how to merge models to create meta-models, how to process books of varying quality and more.

    I am a Zettler

  • I decided to postpone a lot of the overly theoretical stuff. After reviewing a bunch of additional material, I don't think it is worth do delay the publication for a pure geek out. I'll get to it later and then either prepare it for a third edition or make it available on this blog (which means translation.. :( )

    I am a Zettler

  • Only 74 writing tasks open (short subsections with new content). Then I'll get to the my project.org (tasks there are like "Check for opportunities to clarify with diagrams" or "Check for opportunities to give examples from work"). Aaaaaand it is just a matter of reading and re-reading up to the point I want to vomit, then some more rounds and then I upgrade the draft to a manuscript. :)

    I am a Zettler

  • @Sascha said:
    Aaaaaand it is just a matter of reading and re-reading up to the point I want to vomit

    Where's the "like" button :smiley:

  • All open tasks done. The first round of editing is coming like winter upon me.

    I am a Zettler

  • edited October 2020

    @Sascha said:
    All open tasks done. The first round of editing is coming like winter upon me.

    Well, we wish you a warm coat, pants, gloves, boots and touque. And a thermos full of hot drink (your choice)!! Maybe even a good sauna. Those of us who live in far northern climes know how to wrestle winter to the ground. ;)

  • @GeoEng51 said:

    @Sascha said:
    All open tasks done. The first round of editing is coming like winter upon me.

    Well, we wish you a warm coat, pants, gloves, boots and touque. And a thermos full of hot drink (your choice)!! Maybe even a good sauna. Those of us who live in far northern climes know how to wrestle winter to the ground. ;)

    Ha! My ancestors lived in siberia and in the gulags. I prefer the ice bath. :)


    Done with the first third of editing the draft. (10/25 parts edited. However just "reading" is 9000 words)

    After the first round of editing, I will dedicate one round of going through the manuscript for the following two tasks:

    1. Incorporate practical examples/demonstrations (wanted by quite many people)
    2. Incorporate exercises (with a "how would I do it and why?") at the end of the book
    3. Incorporate flow diagrams where possible

    After that, I will go through all the noted open loops like "Adress the reader differently in the chapter Zettelkasten for students?" There is really not so much left.


    I have some plan on how to make the English translation happen through a publisher. I think it can be difficult because I want to keep a high degree of control over the German version.

    If you know publishers that you recommend I am happy for any suggestion.

    I am a Zettler

  • edited November 2020

    @Sascha said:

    If you know publishers that you recommend I am happy for any suggestion.

    I have a daughter who published books in English on Amazon. She recently had some translated into German, as Germany is a fertile field for her area (romantic fiction; I know, don't groan, she makes a great living out of it). Anyway, I'll check and see if she has any hints :smiley: I know it's not a technical field, but she has the same obsessive and meticulous attention to detail as you do, so she may have some useful ideas.

  • @GeoEng51 said:

    @Sascha said:

    If you know publishers that you recommend I am happy for any suggestion.

    I have a daughter who published books in English on Amazon. She recently had some translated into German, as Germany is a fertile field for her area (romantic fiction; I know, don't groan, she makes a great living out of it).

    No reason to groan. :) Romantic fiction is a genre not a quality statement. If she can make a great living out of it, she must be very good.

    Anyway, I'll check and see if she has any hints :smiley: I know it's not a technical field, but she has the same obsessive and meticulous attention to detail as you do, so she may have some useful ideas.

    Thanks a lot.

    I am a Zettler

  • Just a reminder. If you have suggestions on what you want to have in the book I have an open ear.

    I am a Zettler

  • I want an ebook version. I love trees when they are alive. Thanks.

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