To work a book or not to work a book?

Sascha · June 22

Hi Zettlers,

I am undecided and I can't trust my English intuition. Either I keep "working a book" as a phrase or I switch to "working with a book".

I heard the first phrase from a client and it stuck with me.

My fear is that this is too unenglish.

What do you think?

harr · June 22

Neither?

I'd translate the first one back to German as "bedienen". For example: Sheldon doesn't know how to work a door. / Sheldon weiß nicht, wie man eine Tür bedient. https://www.reddit.com/r/EnglishLearning/comments/qz2sou/what_does_work_a_something_mean/?rdt=52538 Charlie works a machine. / Charlie bedient eine Maschine. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-work-a-machine-and-work-on-a-machine

The second one is ambiguos. Is the book just a tool in your workflow? For example: As a cook I work with knives and pots.

What kind of work do you have in mind? Is it the work of writing zettels that are based on the content of a book? Is it the work of thoroughly reading and understanding a book?

Sascha · June 22

Are you a German speaker?

What kind of work do you have in mind? Is it the work of writing zettels that are based on the content of a book? Is it the work of thoroughly reading and understanding a book?

All of it. Especially in history, we were taught to use a book and not read it. Working a book sounds like exactly what I mean.

tomp · June 22

@Sascha said:
Hi Zettlers,

I am undecided and I can't trust my English intuition. Either I keep "working a book" as a phrase or I switch to "working with a book".

I heard the first phrase from a client and it stuck with me.

My fear is that this is too unenglish.

What do you think?

I'm a US English speaker. "working a book" is not a standard everyday English phrase as far as I know. There are a few specialized uses, as in the publishing business. It is recognizable as an idiom in the same vein as "working the room". It does not strike me as being wrong, irritating, or offensive. To me it has connotations that fit right in with working on notes for a ZK while reading a book. It has connotations of a specific kind of interaction with a book, done with the specific purpose of getting a certain kind of result.

That is to say that you are not simply "reading a book", and not generically "working" with one, but you are doing your particular kind of "working" which will presumably continue until the book has been reshaped to fit your intent (in this case, turned into a combination of understanding and z-cards).

The phrase "working with a book" treats the book as a passive object that plays an unspecified role. In "working a book", the book becomes a more active participant in that something definite and intentional is being done to or with it, or with its contents - "book" may stand for the book's contents.

This kind of phrase adopts this usage of the word "work":

to produce a desired effect or result [merriam-webster online dictionary]

There is also a connotation of getting something valuable from the object, which certainly fits.

So yes, I think the phrase is acceptable and immediately understandable. Since it's not a known standard usage you would want to make sure to connect it with your zettelkasten work the first time it is used.

harr · June 22

The Oxford Learners Dictionary has examples of to work as transitive verb: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/work_1

Merriam Webster also lists multiple examples of transitive usage: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/work

Not sure, which one would apply here.

I find to process a book easier to understand: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/process

ZettelDistraction · June 22

One works through a book when reading or studying it systematically; the phrase suggests sustained effort. One can also work on a book, but that usually means writing, editing, or revising it, which is probably not what you intend. "Work a book" is not a standard English idiom. It could be introduced as specialized Zettelkasten terminology, but it ain’t Standard English.

tomp · June 22

@ZettelDistraction said:
One works through a book when reading or studying it systematically; the phrase suggests sustained effort. One can also work on a book, but that usually means writing, editing, or revising it, which is probably not what you intend. "Work a book" is not a standard English idiom. It could be introduced as specialized Zettelkasten terminology, but it ain’t Standard English.

Much of English usage is by idiom. For similar constructions (among others):

work the crowd
work the audience
work the phones 
work the refs
work the system
work the angles
work your connections
work your contacts 
work the media
work the press

ZettelDistraction · June 22

@tomp Your reply bizarrely sought to instruct me on an elementary fact that my comment neither denied nor misunderstood. I often work other amateur-radio stations, so I am well aware that work can take a direct object in established usage and idioms. That, like your list of examples, is beside the point. The idioms work the crowd, work the phones, and work the system do not establish work a book as an English idiom. That distinction was precisely the point of my comment.

harr · June 22

Who is the audience of the phrase? I'd guess it's an international audience that includes many learners of English as a second language (ESL).

Why not make it easy for that audience and stick to vocabulary that they can look up easily in a dictionary?

tomp · June 22

@ZettelDistraction said:
@tomp Your reply bizarrely sought to instruct me on an elementary fact that my comment neither denied nor misunderstood. I often work other amateur-radio stations, so I am well aware that work can take a direct object in established usage and idioms. That, like your list of examples, is beside the point. The idioms work the crowd, work the phones, and work the system do not establish work a book as an English idiom. That distinction was precisely the point of my comment.

My point is that English speakers are going to recognize the usage and understand what it's intended to indicate, and it won't seem strange. The fact that in this context it doesn't mean to manipulate the book ("book" in the the gambling sense), as an example seems unlikely to confuse them.

Remember, all the similar existing usages were new once.

Now if you really want to wind me up, start using "gift" as a verb!

ZettelDistraction · June 23

@tomp said:
My point is that English speakers are going to recognize the usage and understand what it's intended to indicate, and it won't seem strange. The fact that in this context it doesn't mean to manipulate the book ("book" in the the gambling sense), as an example seems unlikely to confuse them.
...
Remember, all the similar existing usages were new once.

“All similar existing usages were new once” concedes rather than answers my point: work a book is not presently an established English idiom. Whether readers understand the intended meaning depends on context; intelligibility within a Zettelkasten forum discussion does not make the phrase generally transparent or standard. Nor does the fact that established idioms were once innovations show that this particular innovation will become established. Time will tell.

Amontillado · June 25

Interesting food for thought. To me and my street punk English, working a book would suggest a book of problems which our protagonist was solving. I think it would be a rhetorical trope chosen for effect. "I worked that accounting book until I not only couldn't tell debit from credit, I no longer cared."

Working a ship is valid for either working on a ship or to sail. It sounds like a phrase from the age of pirates, but like boats being neuter in German, feminine in English, working a boat persists in modern conversation. "We worked the old scow from Southampton to Bilbao, and about halfway across the Biscay she began working us."

For full disclosure, I'm not a blue water sailor and have never crossed the Bay of Biscay. I've heard it gets so rough crews can't be fed. For reference, the first verse of Herzogin Cecile:

Sailing down the Baltic, where the wreck mark buoys all peal,
Cruisin' down the Channel, where the steamers never yield,
Beatin' down the Biscay, where the crew they get no meals,
She's the mighty sailing ship the Herzogin Cecile!

I claim no firsthand knowledge.

Sascha · July 6

Many thanks for your feedback. I went conservative and decided for "working with a book".

I'll save the phrase for a specific next book.

Zettelkasten Forum

To work a book or not to work a book?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion