How to overcome the fear of forgetting ?
Description of the problem :
- As I work with my Zettelkasten, I see the fear of forgetting what I've construct inside grows and grows bigger as days pass.
- I switched from explicite file names to ID names, so I am afraid of losing of sight the content of the notes. I think I will get back to explicite titles again.
- I don't trust process I don't control. I need to feel I have control over the amount of knowledge I have in my Zettelkasten.
Solutions already implemanted :
- General index of my whole notes with aliases and subject.
- Subjects notes with inside logical organisation.
- Zettel links to create connexion and meanings.
The big index : 
Baby hubs in building : 
I don't use tags : they become quite messy, useless, they create clutters but I have to remember tags as well to make a useful utilisation of tags.
What I want to know
- How do you remember ? How do you know what is the content of your Zettelkasten ?
- Did I miss something ? An important point ?
- What tools help you ?
Howdy, Stranger!
Comments
I forget a lot of stuff all the time. When I'm in a web browsing mood and find a new trick, I sometimes find that I have a Zettel for that exact thing after I finished writing a new note. That happens when I start with a new file in vacuum; wouldn't have happened if I started to look for a good place to 'branch off' of by adding a link, aka the "link first" strategy. Either way, these are moments where I feel positively dumb
The previous paragraph also contains part of the fix: if I had started to collect a note on some nerdy prgramming trick by looking for an appropriate overview of similar tricks, I would've remembered. Or rather: my Zettelkasten would've pointed me towards existing notes.
So the process of remembering with the help of the Zettelkasten is to use it, to browse it, and then pick up trails you forgot you had. That's the proverbial "surprise" when working with the Zettelkasten. It's not new content downloaded for you automatically, it's rediscovering old content in a the light of a changed context.
Step into the late Luhmann's shoes -- By design, you cannot expect to remember all of your 90000 note cards. Maybe you some by heart. Maybe you remember the rough structure of a department of your Zettelkasten because its structure is imprinted like muscle memory. But every little detail? Impossible. The process of interacting with the Zettelkasten brings these up again. Like loading data from a slow disk into main memory on a computer -- only you are the memory here.
@Sascha has a good track record of remembering things, including notes he wrote. But all of his 12k files?
Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/
To add to what Christian wrote, my own analysis.
Can I Have Been Acquired a Cheezburger?
Connections will kill forgetting. Make connections, including through Structure Notes. Niklas had a helluva collection, but connections made the size almost meaningless. I say "almost" because they had to physically search for Zettels. That can be time-consuming.
I don't understand this. Does this mean that you're using name-based IDs as your unique identifiers? And what do you mean by "explicit filenames"?
Neither do I. That's where connections come in. Keep in mind that a Zettelkasten is some kind of controlled chaos.
What do you mean by "alias"? An alternative Zettel title? If so, why not use the original title?
Also, have you though about using headings? That could make navigating Zettels under the same idea easier. E.g.,
In addition, if this is a general index, and assuming that you have smaller indexes, have you considered implementing the structural layers? You'd link to the smaller indexes from this index instead of all Zettels in your Zettelkasten.
Purr-fection.
Structure notes are worthy of meta tags, which is something that you don't seem to be using. I'm talking ## instead of #. E.g., ##zettelkasten. That way, you get to the good stuff from a meta tag search.
By the way, are you using some kind of signifier for your Structure Notes? That can help to find them quickly. If not, you could do so with double hashes too. E.g., I use ##!2 and ##!1 for middle-level and top-level Structure Notes respectively.
Oh, and tags can help if done well, not just for Structure Notes.
Connections.
I don't think that you need any additional tools. What you have seems more than enough. It's just a matter of implementation.
Summary
Exploit connections like there's no tomorrow. That's what this is about, my star. Consider changing how you organize your Structure Notes to follow the structural layers model and for better navigation. Don't toss aside tags. They have their place too. All of this should do.
To ctietze :
Thank you for your answer
OK, I feel less alone now
I am refractoring my Zettelkasten and… well… I have the same quote in three zettels. I sure do love Dante Alighieri x)
So, your suggestion would be, for example, to open a hub note, check it, and add the link on it before clicking and creating any new zettel ? Making researches on the Zettelkasten before ? Did I understand it well ?
That is precisely what I want to achieve. Of course, I am not inhuman, I can't remember details of every single note, but I want to know the structure of my Zettelkasten and the name of my zettels. I like order and rationnality.
OK, so it is normal to lose sometimes from sight what I have put in it and navigate through Zettelkasten is a part of the game.
I can… accept that… somewhat.
I will find a mnemotechnic tricks to help me, because now, even with hubs, indexes and structures notes, I have the picture of my zettels roaming in the wild. They are cute and free, but I need to be confident in my capacities to remember who is who and where do they belong. Maybe this is the "control freak beginner fallacy", a new kind of fallacy ? ^^
To Annabella :
Thank you very meowch for your answer
(I know ! be indulgent, please, I am a more skilled word player in my native language, I swear xD)
About the links
As I explained (but after this question) on an other thread, in order to make links, Obsidian only recognizes file name (here the ID "220411.312133") or the alias "Fighting lexicon" but not the title of the note. It is not like The Archive or Zettlr and it is quite an aberration, as HTLM docs does not care about alias, only title, but it's the way the software works.
So if I want to make a link, I use the timestamp file name, or the alias I gave in frontmatter format. The software does not add the title of the note. And I don't see the title or the alias in the file explorer, so I am kind of blind, so I will stop using timestamp id to name my files and give explicite file name instead, like this :
At the left of the sceen, the file explorer. Some files get timestamp file name, some have explicite file names. I will get back to it.
Oh, and you can see I use title in my indexes and hubs too
I use a structural approach as well even if it is not quite clear from the screenshot I have posted.
For example, a hub for smithing techniques inside the whole "material and technics" department (not imported yet):
Maybe should I rework my structure files.
Why would it be different from classical tags ? Is it a special feature of the soft, or a convention you set by yourself ?
I really don't like tags for my personnal workflow, as they add memory charge. I use catch phrases however, more freedom as I know how i tend to phrases researches. Should I catch them all on a independant file ?
How do you use them ? What is the point to use "!" in your title ? How do you exploit them, is it through global search for example ?
Thank you very much, Annyanbella
Your answer meets Ctietze's one and enlights the necessity of having a clear sight of structure to gain easier latent memory access.
This will be a good idea. Without titles in the filename content is not accessable from the list.
You don't have control over the knowledge you aquire during your lifetime anyhow.
I am a Zettler
@Loni
Robo-Fortune and Ms Fortune would be so purr-oud of our paw(n)s.
You might be walking on a tight rope. Using a title as the unique identifier of a Zettel forces you to not change them. Sure, Obsidian updates the link, but few programs do that. If you migrate to another program, you're probably going to end up with broken links. Besides, you will probably want to change a Zettel's title once in a while.
Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, time-based IDs? You could use 'em and rely on searching for them with the Quick Switcher or Search plugins. E.g., searching for a Zettel with this workflow might look like this:
filename:before the ID so Obsidian only searches in filenames.They taste good with bread too! Wait, what...
Ahem, alternatively, you could implement the Folgezettel Technique if you like: https://forum.zettelkasten.de/discussion/976/the-case-for-a-digital-folgezettel/p1
You may be onto something here.
It's a convention robbed from inspired by Sascha. It's used for Structure Notes so you can get to them quickly. I use two kinds: Signifiers and object tags. The signifiers are
!2&!1, used to get to the two different levels. Object tags are the tags that you're probably familiar with.Those catch phrases sound like tags. Assuming that they are, the answer would be "it depends on what you want". If you want to get a list of your tags automatically, you could use Obsidian's Tag Pane plugin or some script to list them in a file. You could also do it by yourself, keeping them in a file. That would look kinda like Niklas' register. Note that I said "look", not "be". The register wasn't a tagging system, but it's a fairly good visual representation of such a system.
To be clear, the reason I chose
!2and!1was because those are combinations of characters that are highly unlikely to appear anywhere other than in a Structure Note. So, if I do a search for them with or without double hashes, regardless of where-in-a-note-I-search, I'll only get Structure Notes.Also, another clarification, these signifiers appear in the filename after the unique identifier and before the title. E.g.,
202204191400 !2 The Zettelkasten Method.These signifiers are useful. I can tell from the search results that I'm looking at my Structure Notes and of what kind. Plus, I can use the Quick Switcher plugin to find them faster than with the Search plugin.
Having them in the filename is important because the content of Structure Notes is usually different from that of "regular" Zettels.
What can I say except you're welcome~
I always make it a point to review my Antinet Zettelkasten and figure out where I'll be installing a card before I actually write the note.
This does several things: (1) It refreshes my memory and strengthens it, (2) It helps me get up to speed on the context of what I already know regarding the concept, and (3) It helps me evolve my thinking, instead of risking wasting time on writing and creating knowledge I already know.
Scott P. Scheper
Website | Twitter | Reddit | YouTube
That's it !
I miss an eagle top view of my notes ! That's why I did a big table index, because the physicality of notes miss me. I don't want to go to full paper, but I do need spatial visualisation of my notes, an eagle point of view of them.
Like a box, a real box of notes.
Thank you everyone for pointing this out !
When I was in University (college), I used the memory palace things. I drew some doodles on my lessons sheets, used colors, visualise and invoqued them when needed. I use my pluchies as an anchor for reminding rendez-vous, tasks and all. I have "places" in my mind where I ask questions, listen to the musics I want to remember, and some other places for testing, creativity, or feelings.
From consciousness comes freedom.
I need to see that kind of memory place thing into my Zettelkasten. Right now, I don't fulfil that eagle view, nor my memory tricks. Right now, I feel like when looking for something into a shop the nose on the labels. I need to step back to capture informations, because being too close confuses me.
Thank you, sweet @Annabella, I will try the signifiers into my hubnotes, maybe a little different from yours. Full searchs are frustrating : in Obsidian, you can't navigate through keyboards into them. On IDE like Sublime Text neither, their are plain texts list and keybords touchs edit them.
Obsidian does not take "tag phrase", only unique word, or tree of words, which are limitating. As you can't navigate through them thanks to keyboards, it is just a pain.
The ID things is boring as hell as well. I've tried it, but I lose my notes in file explorer. They may taste good on bread, but they confused me much more.
I am fed up with software issue.
I want a table view of my notes with tags, filename stamp and main title. I want to use keyboard for navigation through the whole software, quick switcher and the same "go to" than IDEs. I want a beautiful layout as well, pictures and medias visualisation, and the typewriter scrolling to keep my cursor in the middle of my screen. I want it available to windows or linux, but I can't use Apple products, far too expensive.
While wainting for Santas, I will make a better use of structures, hubs and indexes notes, open them before creating content and integrate new knowledge like a Kevin Bacon apparition.
Comment to 2: That is why people sometimes claim that I have encyclopedic knowledge. But truth is that I just have thought about what I talk several folds more often, lateral and vertical than an average person because the ZKM "forces"me to. I don't do any mnemotic techniques since I don't believe in making meaningless connections.
I have two examples ready to reel off:
When you use the ZKM you have a very uncommon training tool for the mind. So, your current needs will and should change over the years. What feels unattainable now will feel natural within a couple of years.
Lastly an anectode: Feynman had reportedly an IQ of "just" 125. Brainpower is not the limiting factor for a lot of people who think it is about increasing their brainpower by using tools. The limiting factor is training time for the long-term working memory.
Over the years your perception will change. Imagine running through the shop with your nose on the label for years. Your internal map will be WAY richer than someone who is provided by an external map.
Think of an forest dweller who has an internal map of square miles of forest and just knows where he is.
EDIT: This is, by the way, very observable in my knowledge: A vast amount of what I know is not trained by my Zettelkasten and you can very much pinpoint the difference. Then I stumble around like the puny learner I actually am.
EDIT 2: I am curious to really harness the ZKM for language learning. Then my poor English and my non-existent Sanskrit benefit from the same effect (hopefully).
I am a Zettler
That reminds me an experience that a french youtuber have made. He signed for an experience with a compagny to observe what kind of neurologic effects it would have to add an other sensorial captor into human body. ("Cyrius North", but it would'nt be usefull if you don't understand French and… well I can understand, difficult, maybe less than Deutch and Sanskrit but still time consumming). So he choosed to add a sensory captor to the north, like a internal compass. He noted that he made internal "from the top" mental representation of places. That was so fascinating.
Back to the topic.
I think I see what you want to say. It is training. Like you for cold resistance (or me for heat and pain), long-memory is a skill as well. Understood.
Well, I have to find a way to build internal representation of my Zettelkasten structure in a way that trains and triggers my long-term memory. I really enjoy the forrest metaphor, it will be usefull. I will create my own evolving forrest.
Absolutly, sheer power is nothing without mastering it, I think I understand how it applies to Zettelkasten and memory as well.
Oooh, do you give in self depreciation too ? :P If you've learned a lot of things efficiently thanks to Zettelkasten, you still learnt a lot of things efficiently. So you are not a puny learner. That does not change a thing about what amount of knowledge you have under your feet. Everything becomes deeper when you take time to dig.
I am still a padawan in Zettelkasten, but I can show some of tools I developped for my writings, maybe it would be usefull to give you ideas to you and others ? Yours will be better, but sometimes, new inputs can be enough to create new process.
@Loni
You could use CamelCase, Underscore, or Dash for that. E.g.,
#BananaBread,#light_novel_adaptation, or#chaos_control. Personally, I combine the last two, but prioritize the last one. E.g.,#hand-infective_virus, where "Hand-infective" is an actual word and the underscore is treated as a space.I don't think I get this.
If you meant as in they don't appear in the file explorer, that could be because Obsidian doesn't recognize the files. The fault of that would probably be the periods
.in your filenames. They're used to denote file extensions. Perhaps you could change them to, say, a dash-?If you meant as having difficulty keeping files around, I can relate to that. I solved that in two ways:
qqq. I use##tmand sometimes include<!--TODO [Insert comment]-->. The latter would have a comment for my future self. Searching for##tmwill get the bookmarked Zettels.You may be a bit overwhelmed with the advice you've received so far. I hope that's not the case. In any case, I just wanted to point out some resources that you might like for dealing with software. Maybe you haven't read them. They're about choosing the software that fits you.
For the latter, the important part is in the section "How to Implement a Zettelkasten?".
Also, I read in another post of yours something about Emacs. You're probably not going to get anything like it with Obsidian, at least not without shady third-party plugins. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but there are Zettelkasten implementations for Emacs that may be of interest to you.
Good luck on your endeavors. However, seeing the advice you've received up to this point and your responses, I think that luck may not even matter. "May the Zettelkasten be with you" might be more fitting.
@Loni
Correction:
filename:is incorrect.file:is what I meant.I love self-deprication. But it is just fun, show and purely ironic. My ego is very healthy. Very healthy.
I am always curious.
I am a Zettler
As for forgetting, try to make a virtue of the under-explored human powers of forgetting, of ignoring, and of not asking questions. Raymond Geuss mention this--I have a reference somewhere. On not asking questions, the sutta of the Poisoned Arrow is worth looking up. In drawing, I try to cultivate blindsight.
GitHub. Erdős #2. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Alter ego: Erel Dogg (not the first). CC BY-SA 4.0.
I am not used to that style of ironie, but I understand the goal. Don't hesitate to call me if you need help to prevent you from hybris
I will keep this in mind, I think you are right. I have to add "is it important" to my "why" and "how" usual pool of questions.
Wisely choosen, wise remember. "Just do it" like Nike and Shia Labeouf's meme. (it is not the same references quality, I know
)
A good approach, from my point of view. Transforming 3D scene in a 2D picture asks for abstraction capacities.
I use every fuel out there. hybris my turbo booster to overcome any obstacle. I even like the inevitable fall when I had to big of a mouth. That's when I switch fuel to my ultimate form by using my mysterious ability to find anyones weak spot in a split second. This self-inflicted deep trauma then forces me to dig deep into my most egocentric form of arrogance just to uncover that my ego was untouchable all along. People around me are disappointed to the max since what started as fun, continued as a reassurance that my true character was being humble all along just ends with a deus ex machina, my ego resurrected and me coming back with another version of the "look at me"-tantrum.
@ctietze loves it, especially when I claim to earned yet another epitheton for my legacy.
How dare you?
I am a Zettler
This is not Kitt super turbo, it reminds me much more this guy : an other hero from my childhood
"I've never seen such a power…"
And comes back again in the fight to kick asses like a "I was dead but it was a no-problem, everything is fine ahah!" boss.
I dare because I scare anyone to death, so no one never tells me to shut up, free like a bird to poop on everything while flying away with a mocking scream. And I never thought I would ever write this one day
Apropos of insufferable egos (present company excluded) here is the reference to the sutta:
The Shorter Exhortation to Māluṅkya. Cūḷa Māluṅkyovāda Sutta (MN 63)
And the reference to Raymond Geuss:
GitHub. Erdős #2. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Alter ego: Erel Dogg (not the first). CC BY-SA 4.0.
What if the "forget" is a feature of the human brain? It is the
process of forgetting that makes us have an ability to remember
the most important things from the infinite amount of information.
You will be able to remember the most important thing. The things
that you forget are just not that important to you.
Thank you for sharing, I took time to proceed it. (I was afraid of failing understand it in the good sens… I sometimes tend to make wrong interpretations of words)
I recognize your subtil and bittersweet touch here, if I may express it like this
I appreciate this citation, because usualy, looking for clarity is seen as a good thing, a way to bring "light" into the dark-mess of thoughts, situations or feelings and, maybe, to find intelligence in the process. However, for Geuss, looking for clarity seems negative, while he presents to forget, to ignore and to shut up like blessing. Why ?
Because forgetting our mistakes is actually a blessing. Sometimes, asking too much questions, focusing on everything keep us away from things we could do in time, they could be distraction. Searching for clarity brings doubt, and become an hindrance to taking action. Controling, knowing everything… This is the poisoned arrow
that you forget are just not that important to you.
Thank you for your insight
It crosses ZettelDistraction's advice : to keep track, to focus on what is important.
So, I implemented some changes into my Zettelkasten:
Zettelkasten-chan now looks like this and it is very cute ven in the middle of refractoring :
Thank you for help, everyone ! It is over for now, but soon, chaos will be back with others questions ahah !
I'd be curious to know how you will use ZKM for Sanskrit. If ever I make enough progress on what I want, I'd encode at least the common roots and rules in a program and then have it spit out random sentences!