Anybody using Visual Note Taking and Zettelkasten? Would love to hear your experience
Anybody is using visual slip box?
I've come across this video:
Here a card may relate to an atomic note.
It sparked some ideas, as I'm heavily visual: what if I went digital with it?
A card is an image, and images are full searchable on most (all?) the Clouds (Apple Photos, Google Photos, etc...).
It's also future proof, since we're talking of image files.
But before entering this rabbit hole I'd like to hear from your experience.
My concerns:
1) My fear is that it would be too much time consuming
2) How to create connections between the cards in an effective (and less time consuming) way?
What do you think of it?
Howdy, Stranger!
Comments
You could include an attachment in the Zettel.
How you do that depends on the program you use. In Obsidian, you write something like ![[Some image.jpg]] and the image shows up while in Preview Mode.
Creating the image and getting it into the Zettel also depends on your toolbox, but is usually pretty fast. I draw stuff in paper slips, take a picture of them, transfer them to my laptop via USB connection, and edit them in GIMP. Takes about 3 to 5 minutes.
I'd recommend not including important text in the image because that may not be searchable in Zettelkasten-oriented programs. You can get around that by using things like Mermaid in Obsidian to create Markdown-like diagrams. You write a kind of code that represents the diagram and is searchable because it's text, but it turns into a diagram while in Preview Mode. Another alternative is writing the important text below the image as part of your description of the Zettel.
I use pictures, memes (who knew there were so many funny people on social media), cartoons, charts, and anything else that helps me understand, makes me laugh, or touches me personally. Quote memes are a good example. It's one thing to capture a quote; it can be something different with the right background. Here are a couple of examples.
I use TheBrain software.
To be clear, this video is specifically about making drawings yourself, not about right-clicking to save preexisting images.
People who draw for a living, such as architects and designers and illustrators, have kept visual sketches and notes for a long time. For them, there is no alternative; they can't record everything important in words, and to some extent this must be true for everyone. I suspect it is more common to keep visual sketches and notes in a notebook, but I have seen visual notes on cards before; it's certainly not "a revolutionary way to take notes" as the video title says, but the video is very well done.
Coincidentally, I remarked in this forum just five days ago about how text-centric the conception of notes is in this forum. Perhaps the text-centricity of this forum is due in part to the way that digital formats encode text data and graphical data differently: when you are using pen and paper, you can write and draw with the same tool, so it is all the same medium, but the difference between digital text and graphics very different, like the difference between using a typewriter (a string of characters) and using a pen (vector graphics) or camera (raster graphics). Searchability of digital graphics has historically been quite limited compared to text.
Regarding the first concern above, "My fear is that it would be too much time consuming", I have always been slow at drawing, so there is no question for me that sometimes drawing would be a slower option, but I imagine one can draw faster with practice. If you are interested in remembering things, it seems that drawing has an extraordinary effect on memory, e.g.: Myra A. Fernandes, Jeffrey D. Wammes, & Melissa E. Meade (2018), "The surprisingly powerful influence of drawing on memory", Current Directions in Psychological Science, 27(5), 302–308. http://dx.doi.org/10.1177/0963721418755385
A few of the many classic books on making visual sketches and notes that may be useful:
WOW!
So are the images only a help, a piece of a bigger puzzle, or are they the most important element of your knowledge base system?
How do you catalog or categorize each single card in order for you to recover them in the future?
Agreed, it's not revolutionary.
Here I find interesting how she put some Zettelkasten into the visual note taking.
I've seen a huge amount of videos about visual note taking, and all of them show complex concepts into one page, such as a whole book summarized and sketched on one page.
Here I talk of having only one idea per each card, as like as the atomic note concept, but with visual.
So the next question is: how can I categorize or store all of these cards in order to recover/discover them in the future?
I think it's also generational.
My generation (I'm 46) is used to laptops.
We also carry laptops for work all day long whenever we go.
New generation are used to tablets, that are more portable and "friendly".
I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the text note takers I've seen come from my generation, and many visual note takers come from the next generation (usually still students).
That is, text has many advantages.
For example taking a fast note on the go on my phone is easier in text mode than on drawing mode.
I'm a Psychologist, so I thank you for this research.
I'll have a look.
And yes, maybe drawing is slower than texting, but maybe you remember and recall better.
So, if you see the big picture along the whole learning process, you lose some time at the beginning but you gain time and quality of memory in the mid/long term.
I take the list for the future.
Thank you very much!
Yes. I make heavy use of pictures.
Either by just using pre-existing pictures:
Adapting pre-existing ones:
Drawing them myself:
I am a Zettler
Great!
So images are something that complete your Zettelkasten, it's not a fundamental part of it, is it?
I ask before I'm evaluating if and how to go full visual.
I see many advantages here, but also many concerns, first of all I fear there would be too much friction in creating, organizing and connecting the visual notes.
@IvanFerrero
All of the above.
I may use them to understand or remember an idea, like Steven625. See attachment [[202112301045]].
Or they might be part of the idea, like a graph showing how two variables interact as part of an empirical study.
Or they could be the thing of focus. See attachment [[202202221428]].
In the same way that I treat every other Zettel: Structure Notes, tags, and any other text. Since almost all text is outside of the image, I can search for that too along with the Zettel's title.
@IvanFerrero
All of the above.
I may use them to understand or remember an idea, like Steven625.
Or they might be part of the idea, like a graph showing how two variables interact as part of an empirical study.
Or they could be the thing of focus.
I should probably resize the images tho...
In the same way that I treat every other Zettel: Structure Notes, tags, and any other text. Since almost all text is outside of the image, I can search for that too along with the Zettel's title.
To me, it sounds strange to go full visual. Why would to make such a dogmatic decision? I'd draw what needs some drawing and write what needs some writing.
Images are fundamental to the content that needs images as words are fundamental to the content that needs words.
I am a Zettler
Thank you all for the replies!
As @Annabella and @Sascha say, images may give great value, but we have to mediate with something more frictionless.
Taking the good from the both worlds is the best strategy.
@IvanFerrero Glad to see that you've found the advice in here useful. Good luck on your endeavors!
I really like the list @Andy posted. I'd also add Edward Tufte's books to that list, especially if you include data visualization in this question.
Also, have you looked at Monodraw? It's not exactly what you are asking, but it's a very useful tool for doing some digitally-native flowcharts and diagrams.
@IvanFerrero said:
@Sascha said:
I think you need to consider that the video in the original post that inspired @IvanFerrero was made by Yani Dutta, an architect and artist who before experimenting with cards was already active in bullet journaling, which tends to attract people who are interested in creating journals as functional art objects. Dutta is one of those "people who draw for a living, such as architects and designers and illustrators" that I mentioned in my previous comment. If you look at her other videos, you can see that when she is bullet journaling and visual note-taking, she is creating beautiful art objects in addition to whatever else she is doing with the content. Her visual note-taking is essentially what professional illustrators do all the time: take words and transform them into graphics. Transforming content-as-words into content-as-drawings is a way of creating value. For Dutta, and others like her, "going full visual" is not a dogmatic decision, it is an aesthetic/stylistic decision as well as a vocational decision. For them, almost anything and everything may call to be drawn. When evaluating whether to go full visual like those people, consider whether you share their aesthetic/stylistic and/or vocational motives.
@Andy
I was addressing @IvanFerrero 's plan.
My warning/implicit criticism was not directed towards Dutta and artists like her. However:
I disagree. The aesthetic/stylistic and/or vocational motives are not something that is opposed to a dogma. Those are reasons to commit more and more to what can (and likely will) become a dogma.
There are three types of "items" (I lack a better word):
The boundaries are of course dependent on you ability. But the more you alter you appraoch contrary to the needs and nature of the item the less effective you are dealing with the item.
I am a Zettler
@Sascha said:
... he says dogmatically.
Here it may be helpful to mention Patricia Stokes's distinction between constraints for conformity and constraints for creativity. Anyone who understands this distinction does not need to fear that an aesthetic/stylistic decision "likely will become" a dogmatic decision:
"Constraints for conformity: Before describing the kinds of constraints involved in structuring a creativity problem, I want to point out the kind that does hinder novelty. Operators in well-structured problems with single correct solutions, like directions to memorize, calculate exactly, or copy correctly, do the opposite of constraints for creativity. They preclude the surprising and promote the expected, and should be called 'constraints for conformity'.
"Constraints for creativity: I like to think of constraints for creativity as barriers that lead to breakthroughs. One constraint precludes (or limits search among) low-variability, tried-and-true responses. It acts as a barrier which allows the other constraint to promote (or direct search among) high-variability, novel responses that could prove to be breakthroughs. The specific pairs are strategically chosen to realize a novel goal criterion...
"Domain constraints: first choruses: Learning and skill acquisition take place within domains, specialized areas of knowledge with agreed-upon performance criteria (Abuhamdeh & Csikszentmihalyi, 2004). The criteria are based on goal, subject, and task constraints; goal constraints specify styles, like Impressionist painting or Baroque music. Subject constraints involve content, landscape and still life in painting, or major and minor theme in music. Task constraints are concerned with materials and their use—for example, how paint is applied to the canvas, or how ornaments are added to individual notes.... The transition from master to creator comes when experts impose novel constraints on their domains. As indicated in the Braque-Picasso example, the most radical change accompanies a new goal constraint." (Patricia D. Stokes, Creativity from Constraints: The Psychology of Breakthrough, New York: Springer Pub. Co., 2006, pp. 7–9)
@Andy
Perhaps, I have the unfair advantage of having witnessed the development of the such dogmas first hand.
The reasoning is quite simple: If you goe all in with anything you'll pay a price. If you attack everything in your life from an aesthetic angle you will lose a lot of pragmatic and utilitarian ugliness.
In many situations the ugly utilitarian gives you the ability to solve problems and progress very efficiently.
My grandpa was a perfect example: Whatever he built was rough and kinda ugly. But it was built for eternity. Wooden chairs that do not brake whatever you do to them, shelves that could take an insane load etc. What he did looked more like something from Mad Max.
Within the realm of Zettelkasten, the downsides are obvious: Aesthetics take energy that could be put into other areas. Going all visual hinders you to deal with precise definitions, concepts and arguments.
I am a Zettler
I treat images directly in Obsidian, like Annabella. I keep records of my drawings and visual notebooks with annotation, like "Notebook Blue 2021 - Page 32" and scan or make photo if it valuable. After all, before backlinks, we worked with manual search as well, in librairy for example.
This was a test for technic and tools for illustrations. I added this to my Zettelkasten.
I use dedicated software for visual inspirations as a whole. Mine is Eagle, I can search pictures by colors, tags, name, folders. Eagle keeps the link where it was collected. Later, I can make a dedicated article about the artist in my Zettelkasten if I need too, or make a curator's article on my blog.
Eagle :
Article :
@Sascha said:
Right now, it is true, even if it less true than some years ago. There was a time we could not choose anything but Emacs or Vi, and then some text editors appears. I think next years will see more visual axed softwares and the price to pay with efforts and time will not be so high anymore.
I think that you are alread very close the what I think the solution is. It think that that the ability to feed pictures that you draw directly into your ZK is 80% of the solution to integrate the word and the picture. The last 20% are to make the image directly editable in your ZK.
The one thing I personally like more generating on the computer, god knows why, are diagrams.
But the evidence is quite robust on the benefits of both drawing and writing.
I am a Zettler
@Loni Can you provide a bit more information about Eagle (the one you use). It seems a popular name for software of all types
Only a few of software allows that now, but I have found some solutions for handling drawings : drawing directly on screen, with Wacom-like products. You can open Gimp (or Photoshop), or any application of your likes and draw directly and put pictures without scanning them. I have try this process, the screen gives my headaches.
There is a product which exports directly from a notebook in .doc format file through ink to text too Wacom folio Don't seem to have proprietary format, so it is usable. But depends on Wacom application to work before export, so it is less freedom maybe.
I imagine you know about Mermaid.js to generate diagrams ? I understand why diagrams are interesting to work with, especialy if updates are easy to make.
Of course
I was unsure of the possibility to share commercial link. Eagle handles all sort of files and digital assets, from JPG to MP3 and flac, typography files, videos, animated gifs, txt files… in a separate database. Like Zettelkasten, you can change de name of the file without touching database's structure ^^ Folders are more categorie, as you can put the same file on many folders, and it handles tags and "folders" of tags with colors and all to personalize your experience.
You can find it there Eagle.com
@Loni Ah, I was thinking of something more specific:
Yes, I know mermaid. I am more of a GraphViz guy but it is even worse than that. I like to fiddle with draw.io
I am a Zettler
I myself use special visuals - Smart Sketchnotes - to support my thinking.
Edmund Gröpl
100% organic thinking. Less than 5% AI-generated ideas.
@Sascha said:
I can't use the Archive, because my computer works with Windows. But I understand the attraction of paper and pen very well. I have a feeling that writing and drawing by hand has a memory boost effect. And ink is a beautiful thing to use. Sens-uality in the gesture gives body to the knowledge.
If I could, I would write my Zettels by hand.
Oh, someone develop a plugin written in Javascript for Obisidian GraphViz Obsidian. I don't know if the Archive is developped with Electron and Typescript, but it can give some ideas to @ctietze… Maybe ^^' For something quite close de draw.io ? LibreOffice has a drawing program, did you test it ? It might be easier to integrate as it is opensource ? Or closer to the initial code of the Archive ? Draw
I wish I was a developper myself to create tools. Sooo frustrating.
How do you proceed ? What kind of information do you take in it ? Do you use a dedicated software to obtain this very appealing result ?
EDIT (Sascha): Slight changes for proper markup.
I agree. As of Gottfried Boehm, language/text and images are two equal pillars in our perception of the world (neither is superior to the other). Both are equally relevant, yet serve different mechanisms in perceiving and processing information (aka text is linear, while the inner structure of images is non-linear). Yet, text is often preferred to images and I think this is wrong.
In my opinion, a combination of both, depending on the ability to grasp the core of the information, is the best way. There are studies that suggest that visualisation techniques support the thinking process (Mike Rohde advocates this in his Sketchnote books quite convincingly and @Edmund's examples and Yani Dutta's video above are, I think, good visualisations of this), while others also stress the important of text, as Fiona McPherson mentions in "Effective Notetaking", p. 122. If I need to focus on a specific term or list, my note would be mainly text. Yet, if I want to grasp a concept or a difference between concepts or even a process, mechanism etc., I tend to use sketchnotes combined with text/explanation. I sometimes – when I can take the time – even try both approaches exclusively and compare the notes if I am uncertain what works best.
As for the technical approach: I recently traded my digital ZK in The Archive with a paper-based one (please, don't call this Antinet), which helps me a lot with visual notetaking (and to think slower/more carefully, thanks to @scottscheper for his inspiration). My preference in general is a rather haptic notetaking, which I guess affected this decision a lot. Yet and without going too much into detail, this approach has a very practical implication for my work as a photographer. When planning a visual project, I rely on mood boards. A mood board is a collection of images, words, sketches etc. that enables you to envision the visual language of the project. I know, it is much faster and less limiting (aka image sizes) to collect images digitally. However, there is some kind of magic in printed images that you can lay out in front of you, that you can rearrange, overlap with each other etc. in an instant without thinking about the limitations of the program you are using. Your tools – besides your brain – are 'simply' your eyes, hands and the cards these images/photographs/sketches are printed on. This possibility to physically engage with my knowledge system is what intrigues me the most and works well with my written notes, as well.
My heart feels heavy for you that miss out on the best app in the world.
Which app are you using then?
You feelings are supported by some evidence ("level of processing" is the keyterm). But in addition: It gives your eyes a break from the screen, your fingers from the keyboard and quite some flexibilty of your workplace (e.g. drawing upside down on the sofa in the next room).
This in turn is way to slow for me. I write from 4000 to 10000 words on a workday when I can concentrate on writing. But even in the moment, I cannot type fast enough to match what I need (~70 words, 450 keystorkes per Minute when normal. Faster when I don't correct typos on the fly) to don't have the typing speed be an obstacle for my thinking writingly.
I am a Zettler
Have you tried speed typing? Maybe that's what you need. I'm not knowledgeable on the topic, so take my definition with a grain of salt. Speed typing is a method for increasing your typing speed by typing in a specific way. You can find websites dedicated to helping you practice it, such as Speed Typing Online.
@Sascha said:
Thank you, my heart bleed, because the Archive seems so cool !
But show must go on… So I use Obsidian, with a few plugins, like the essential typewriter scrolling and css tweaks. I don't use Zotero for citation but zettels themselves, and I've broke other softwares, or they don't make hyperlinks. Obsidian allowed me to use image without switch between writting and preview mode. I can use audio file too ! Music is a great part of my inspiration. I use Sublime Text for writing my novels, it remembers cursor position per document and this is very convenient.
However, with great flexibility comes great responsability. I have printed pages on my floor by accident or my son put his cute little fingers of him right in my drawings. In theory you are right. For me ? "It's complicated"
So I have a table that can be high or down for drawing.
Yes, indeed, writing by hand is slower than typing on a keyboard. When you have to type a lot, writting by hand slow the whole pace. For some activity, it is profitable. For working… not at all.
@Annabella said:
I will take a look on this too, thank you for sharing !
@Loni @Annabella
I learned to type in a high school class (grades 7 and 8). Even though it was on old, manual typewriters, I became very proficient (up to about 100 words a minute). Still, at 70, I can type comfortably at about 60 words per minute.
One thing I learned back then is that the QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow down people's typing, so that they didn't jam up the typewriter keys. Yikes!
Of course, as typing progressed to electric typewriters and then to computers, this need to limit typing speed disappeared, but the "good old" QWERTY keyboard did not.
But...if you want to really speed up your typing, you will learn to use alternate keyboards where the key layout is designed for speed. Two such keyboards are Dvorak and Colemak. I actually have Colemak installed on my computer but find the learning hump to be too large to make the switch.
My son uses the Dvorak keyboard and claims it is both faster and less stressful on your fingers. Others claim these alternate keyboards are not faster, but may still be less stressful. For example, see:
https://www.howtogeek.com/189270/alternative-keyboard-layouts-explained-dvorak-colemak-and-whether-you-should-care/
For me, 60 wpm is sufficient. It's not as fast as I think, but then I don't think continuously at a high rate but rather in bursts, so eventually my fingers catch up with my brain.