Zettelkasten Forum


What is your preferred metaphor for Zettelkasten? And why?

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  • @erikh said:
    Not so sure about the puzzle: a puzzle assumes that there is some large, final design, an overall picture. Also with a puzzle the pieces only fit together in a single way.

    I also see this difference, hence the idea of a puzzle without a template.

    Or also an idea of the big picture, for example the overview of a subject area that the box of notes should gradually open up.

    It's still in development - :-)

    immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle

  • edited February 2023

    When explaining Zettelkasten to someone new, my goal is not to explain it well enough that they can run off and do it; my goal is to get them excited enough to want to ask questions and research it themselves after we're done talking.

    So here's my analogy to get them excited about learning more:


    A Zettelkasten lets you easily connect ideas together in ways they've never been connected before, so you regularly produce new, innovative content in your field.

    This is how it works: Imagine when you read a book, your notes become a mindmap. The main concept is in the center, with all these supporting ideas surrounding it.

    The next book not only gets its own mindmap, but the Zettelkasten system makes it really easy to see & connect these smaller ideas between the two mindmaps.

    Before long, you've created an entirely new mindmap, but in reverse: you see how all of these ideas connect together, and you're able to invent the concept that belongs in the center.

    And no one else could've invented this concept in this way because they've never combined those ideas in the same combination as you have.

    This allows you to write about brand new innovative ideas in your field, allowing you to become an expert faster than most people who just read-and-regurgitate. That's the power of Zettelkasten.

  • Pardon me, but what do you get out of metaphors for Zettelkasten? Is there some expectation that the right metaphor will open up endless cognitive vistas? Perhaps there is some deep theory of Zettelkasten waiting to be discovered, if only one had an analogy to some established theory to guide the discovery. Mathematicians operate this way sometimes. Is the intention to develop layer after layer of interpretation, cleverly encoded so that no one would suspect that the ultimate referent of it all is a filing cabinet of interlinked notes? Does the idea for which some metaphor is sought stand by itself?

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Armchair theorists unite, you have nothing to lose but your meetings! --Phil Edwards

  • Not all of us have the mental powers of mathematicians. Some of us have taken up lowly positions as aficionados of literature. Mathematicians use metaphors to make connections between established theories and find new insights. In literature, metaphors serve as a way to illuminate and deepen understanding of complex ideas. The idea for which a metaphor is sought can stand on its own, but the metaphor adds another layer of meaning and interpretation. Like painting an idea a bright color and making it easier to see. (How's that for a metaphor?) For example, a metaphor can be used in literature to shed light on complex ideas and make them understandable to the reader. The idea behind the metaphor can still be understood without the metaphor, but the metaphor adds a dimension of understanding. In this way, a metaphor can bring an idea to life, making it more vivid and memorable.

    If there's a deep theory of Zettelkasten waiting to be discovered, I hope it's not as complicated as the mathematical definition of folgezettel and operatic lyricism. I can barely understand my todo list, let alone all the connections in my ZK. But hey, if a metaphor will help me unravel the mysteries of zettelkasting, then bring on the analogies! Who knows, maybe I'll finally find out why the heck I've been keeping all these notes along with the meaning of life.

    Will Simpson
    I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
    kestrelcreek.com

  • @Will I had forgotten my prior contribution to this thread. I guess I'm out of ideas.

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Armchair theorists unite, you have nothing to lose but your meetings! --Phil Edwards

  • We need to ask the question of an appropriate metaphor of one of the old 1970's rock musicians. They were pretty good at coming up with metaphors. Many of them sounded nonsensical, made just for the purpose of rhyme, but when one dug a bit deeper, there was usually something there (climbing out of some drug-induced dream, I suppose).

    @Will - In regard to zettelkasting, I think a lot of us approach it as we do other aspects of our lives. We have found something fun, which seems to hold promise, so we embark on a journey. We believe and hope it will provide benefit. If it does, we continue to pursue it; if not, we drop it and move on to something else. The benefit doesn't have to be what we usually envisaged; it just has to be real. My sense is that you have derived many, many benefits from zettelkasting - may it long continue!

  • Gareth Morgan, in Images of Organization (1986, i.m.o. one of the best organization books ever) has shown that metaphors are a powerful way to better understand an object of study, especially when using multiple metaphors as comparative "lenses".

    He looks at organizations as machines, as organisms, as brains, as cultures, as political systems, as psychic prisons, as instruments of domination, and as flux and transformation. Some of those metaphors seems also applicable to a ZK.

  • @ZettelDistraction said:
    Pardon me, but what do you get out of metaphors for Zettelkasten? Is there some expectation that the right metaphor will open up endless cognitive vistas? Perhaps there is some deep theory of Zettelkasten waiting to be discovered, if only one had an analogy to some established theory to guide the discovery. Mathematicians operate this way sometimes. Is the intention to develop layer after layer of interpretation, cleverly encoded so that no one would suspect that the ultimate referent of it all is a filing cabinet of interlinked notes? Does the idea for which some metaphor is sought stand by itself?

    A metaphor differs from the model by providing a feeling. I don't think that many people use metaphors consciously for that reason most of the time. But the human brain seems to like metaphors. Hence, most of us rather listen to a story of somebody we admire than read about the same concept in the form of a abstract model derived from systems theory.

    I am a Zettler

  • I personally think of the zettelkästen as my daemon.

    I've named him Dante. :)

  • Once again I agree with @Sascha.

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Armchair theorists unite, you have nothing to lose but your meetings! --Phil Edwards

  • edited February 2023

    Perhaps, to think even further. If you treat a metaphor as a second order perception (first order perception = senses) you can create Pseudo-Synesthesia which may increase divergent thinking.

    I am a Zettler

  • with the right metaphor, you can often quickly explain why and for what purpose you are dealing with a box of notes.
    Attempts via stations such as "Luhmann", "systems theory" or "knowledge management" occasionally end in rising amazement.

    immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle

  • edited February 2023

    @rl911 said:
    with the right metaphor, you can often quickly explain why and for what purpose you are dealing with a box of notes.

    I don't know if it is a language thing but I wouldn't say that you can explain something with a metaphor. A metaphor is a hypothesis generator and nothing more. It gives a feel for something but hides the factual mechanism. An explanation would refer to the factual mechanism itself.

    Example: "The body is like a factory. The brain works as the boss, the muscles as workers and the liver as HR." This would explain anything but illustrates. To explain, how the body works you'd need to actually refer to the functions of the organs as they are.

    Please do not Kant me.

    I am a Zettler

  • @Sascha said:

    I don't know if it is a language thing but I wouldn't say that you can explain something with a metaphor. A metaphor is a hypothesis generator and nothing more. It gives a feel for something but hides the factual mechanism. An explanation would refer to the factual mechanism itself.

    perhaps it is also due to the diversions via deepl :-)

    So with the image of the gardener in the garden and "digital garden" I have often had success explaining beyond the nerd world.

    immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle

  • @rl911 said:

    @Sascha said:

    I don't know if it is a language thing but I wouldn't say that you can explain something with a metaphor. A metaphor is a hypothesis generator and nothing more. It gives a feel for something but hides the factual mechanism. An explanation would refer to the factual mechanism itself.

    perhaps it is also due to the diversions via deepl :-)

    So with the image of the gardener in the garden and "digital garden" I have often had success explaining beyond the nerd world.

    How did you measure success?

    I am a Zettler

  • @Sascha said:

    How did you measure success?

    The questions, or even better, the additions to the image/metaphor by the listener directly show the success or failure of the attempt.

    immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle

  • @rl911 said:

    @Sascha said:

    How did you measure success?

    The questions, or even better, the additions to the image/metaphor by the listener directly show the success or failure of the attempt.

    Okay, my trick didn't work. :) In my experience, you can develop the ability to communicate about a topic without actually building competence.

    In the internet space of personal knowledge management (PKM), it's clear that there is a significant gap between the ability to talk about various techniques and methods and the ability to use them effectively (this gap widens when you actually test the ability to use them through practical application). As a content creator or explainer, you receive feedback through the emotional reactions of the people you're communicating with.

    In my opinion, the "eureka" moments of the listener aren't the best measurement of understanding. However, if you're talking to people who aren't familiar with the "nerd" world, bringing them to a level of understanding that manifests in the ability to use what they've learned may not even be the goal. Instead, the goal may be to develop their openness to the "nerdy" side of the world, which can be a constant source of unexpected gifts that they can use. (Like the tablet I wish my grandmother would use, but instead she uses the combination of the tablet and my cousin as a tablet handler. Bruno Latour would like it.)

    As a trainer, it's always a miracle to me when people transition from the ability to communicate about something to the ability and habit of actually doing it. Even after more than a decade of work experience, my ability to talk about this gap still exceeds my ability to help people bridge it unsatisfyingly. :)

    I am a Zettler

  • Pulling this back on topic by querying my own zettelkasten...

    I've got versions of most of @Will's excellent list in my notes as well, but here are a few other metaphors (and analogies) which I don't think have been mentioned:

    website | digital slipbox 🗃️🖋️

    No piece of information is superior to any other. Power lies in having them all on file and then finding the connections. There are always connections; you have only to want to find them. —Umberto Eco

  • On Ahrens' shipping container analogy to the zettelkasten

    @ZettelDistraction said
    Perhaps the shipping hub is a better analogy for the Zettelkasten than the shipping container (Ahrens, 40).

    We should be careful to separate the ideas of analogy and metaphor. Analogies are usually more direct and well-defined in scope.

    While there's an apt and direct correlation between shipping containers and zettelkasten as boxes, Ahrens was making the analogy with respect to the shift that shipping containers made to the overall system:

    shipping containers : shipping industry and globalism :: zettelkasten : thinking and writing/content creation

    As with many analogies, stretching it the way one might stretch metaphors isn't usually fruitful or even possible.

    In hindsight, we know why they failed: The ship owners tried to integrate the container into their usual way of working without changing the infrastructure and their routines. They tried to benefit from the obvious simplicity of loading containers onto ships without letting go of what they were used to.

    He's saying one needs to consider how one's note taking method fits into their work in a more integrative way. Without properly integrating it into one's workflow seamlessly the system will fail. This is also one of the most difficult problems many zettelkasten aspirants have. In addition to creating a zettelkasten, they're often also simultaneously trying to integrate new (digital) tools into their process at the same time and they get distracted by them rather than focusing on the move to increasing writing/creating and creativity overall (globalism).

    To focus on Ahrens' analogy a bit, if Obsidian, for example, is your "ship", is it as custom built for your specific purpose the way a container ship would be for a cargo container? Might you be better off with something like The Archive, ZKN3, or simple index cards that help to limit you to only do the function you want rather than all the other possible functions (wiki, blog, to do list, calendar, journal, kanban, etc.)? Obsidian and many other applications can be a proverbial row boat, a yacht, a tugboat, a steamer, a cruise ship, and even a warship in addition to a container ship, so one has to be extra careful how they choose to use it.

    website | digital slipbox 🗃️🖋️

    No piece of information is superior to any other. Power lies in having them all on file and then finding the connections. There are always connections; you have only to want to find them. —Umberto Eco

  • @Sascha said:
    As a trainer, it's always a miracle to me when people transition from the ability to communicate about something to the ability and habit of actually doing it. Even after more than a decade of work experience, my ability to talk about this gap still exceeds my ability to help people bridge it unsatisfyingly. :)

    In my role as a consultant/trainer, I have become more and more modest over the years.
    (Meaning real consultant, not "booked expert for execution").
    "Learning cannot be delegated".
    I can only lead the client to his own learning experiences through questions or specific tasks.
    In the end, they have to learn for themselves. "Eureka" is then the result of a successful stage setting.
    Clarification of the assignment is often only possible on an abstract level.
    Metaphors can help again...

    Due to the peculiarities of personal knowledge management, one is occasionally in a problematic double role.
    On the one hand, you are the forward-looking designer of the PKM system (technically and methodically) and on the other hand, you are the operational user of this system.

    The patient designer then often has to explain the newly installed "features" to the hurried user.
    The garden metaphor of self-management of time budgets between gardener, caretaker and visitor to the garden helps here.

    immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle

  • Of course the metaphor of the bees and their honey is the biggest which we've all failed to mention! It's my favorite because of its age, its location within the tradition of rhetoric and sententiae/ars excerpendi, its prolific use through history, and the way it frames collecting and arranging for the use of creativity and writing.

    In the his classic on rhetoric, Seneca gave an account of his ideas about note-taking in the 84th letter to Luculius ("On Gathering Ideas"). It begins from ut aiunt: "men say", that we should imitate the bees in our reading practice. For as they produce honey from the flowers they visit and then "assort in their cells all that they have brought in", so we should, "sift (separate) whatever we have gathered from a varied course of reading" because things keep better in isolation from one another, an idea which dovetails with ars memoria, the 4th canon of rhetoric.

    "We should follow, men say, the example of the bees, who flit about and cull the flowers that are suitable for producing honey, and then arrange and assort in their cells all that they have brought in; these bees, as our Vergil says:
    'pack close the flowering honey
    And swell their cells with nectar sweet.' "

    Generations later in ~430 CE, Macrobius in his Saturnalia repeated the same idea (he assuredly read Seneca, though he obviously didn't acknowledge him):

    "You should not count it a fault if I shall set out the borrowings from a miscellaneous reading in the authors' own words... sometimes set out plainly in my own words and sometimes faithfully recorded in the actual words of the old writers... We ought in some sort to imitate bees; and just as they, in their wandering to and fro, sip the flowers, then arrange their spoil and distribute it among the honeycombs, and transform the various juices to a single flavor by some mixing with them a property of their own being, so I too shall put into writing all that I have acquired in the varied course of my reading... For not only does arrangement help the memory, but the actual process of arrangement, accompanied by a kind of mental fermentation which serves to season the whole, blends the diverse extracts to make a single flavor; with the result that, even if the sources are evident, what we get in the end is still something clearly different from those known sources."

    Often in manuscripts writers in the middle ages to the Renaissance would draw bees or write 'apes' (Latin for bees) in the margins of their books almost as bookmarks for things they wished to remember or excerpt for their own notes.

    Of course, neither of these classical writers mentions the added benefit that the bees were simultaneously helping to pollenate the flowers, which also enhances the ecosystem.

    • Seneca (2006) Epistles 66-92. With an English translation by Richard G. Gummere. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press (Loeb Classical Library), 277-285.
    • Havens, Earle. Commonplace Books: A History of Manuscripts and Printed Books from Antiquity to the Twentieth Century. New Haven, CT: Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, 2001.

    website | digital slipbox 🗃️🖋️

    No piece of information is superior to any other. Power lies in having them all on file and then finding the connections. There are always connections; you have only to want to find them. —Umberto Eco

  • edited February 2023

    @chrisaldrich said:

    On Ahrens' shipping container analogy to the zettelkasten

    @ZettelDistraction said
    Perhaps the shipping hub is a better analogy for the Zettelkasten than the shipping container (Ahrens, 40).

    We should be careful to separate the ideas of analogy and metaphor. Analogies are usually more direct and well-defined in scope.

    You cleverly omitted the sentence that followed.

    The shipping hub illustrates a counterintuitive principle: sometimes a procedure that includes steps that are inefficient to carry out at small scale will operate more efficiently at scale than a simple direct procedure (Ahrens 39).

    But as @chrisaldrich once wrote in r/Zettelkasten, "Ignore the naysayers."

    While there's an apt and direct correlation between shipping containers and zettelkasten as boxes,

    I wasn't making that analogy.

    Ahrens was making the analogy with respect to the shift that shipping containers made to the overall system:

    shipping containers : shipping industry and globalism :: zettelkasten : thinking and writing/content creation

    Likewise:

    Shipping hubs : shipping industry :: Zettelkasten : writing.

    This was the analogy I was referring to. Ahrens also makes the point that the shipping container was counterintuitive at the time it was introduced. Likewise for the shipping hub.

    As with many analogies, stretching it the way one might stretch metaphors isn't usually fruitful or even possible.

    Exactly. The shipping container analogy is misleading, since it bundles the independent Zettelkasten of different authors together on the same container ship, destination unknown. Perhaps the fate of that container ship is to run aground on the banks of the Suez Canal. Both the shipping container analogy and the shipping hub analogy oversell the Zettelkasten, which offers marginal improvement in writing and mental acuity. Case in point: I was accused of not recognizing the difference between an analogy and a metaphor.

    Post edited by ZettelDistraction on

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Armchair theorists unite, you have nothing to lose but your meetings! --Phil Edwards

  • edited May 2023

    @chrisaldrich I retract my statement that Ahrens was comparing the shipping container and the Zettelkasten per se. That was mistaken. I agree with you on Ahrens's purpose in making the comparison he did make.

    Since the thread asks for metaphors for Zettelkasten, mine is the shipping hub, by analogy with FedEx, etc. Ahrens's shipping container analogy suggested an answer to Edmund's question.

    Post edited by ZettelDistraction on

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Armchair theorists unite, you have nothing to lose but your meetings! --Phil Edwards

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