On Developing a Deep Knowledge Work Practice (Comment on Nori’s Blog Post) • Zettelkasten Method

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On Developing a Deep Knowledge Work Practice (Comment on Nori’s Blog Post) • Zettelkasten Method

A reply to Nori Parelius’ follow-up post after our recent video call where we talked about her quitting the Zettelkasten Method.

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Andy

I enjoyed reading both Nori's blog post and Sascha's response. It was a fruitful dialogue between two thinkers thinking about their thinking environments.

zettelsan

Nori's blog post is wonderfully written, and Sascha's response here provides gist of that coaching session which I enjoyed listening. Thanks for providing the opportunity to think more deeply about what atomicity really is in the context of Zettelkasten.

Nick

I wonder if Nori is still missing the primary point of atomicity. She stated she now thinks of atomicity as a direction, not a starting point. While true, the point of atomicity is to not to create a conceptual model of ones thoughts but to allow it to contribute to multiple contexts (to me at least). You are taking the cheese out of this newly discovered cheeseburger, transforming it (melting it down), and combining it (adding it to macaroni noodles) to create a new dish (macaroni and cheese). You are taking it out of the context of a cheeseburger and allowing it to contribute to other contexts (e.g. mac and cheese). By extracting it, you can also delve deeper into it (variations and subtleties of cheese) without having to work with it in its original context. Having done all this also allows one to track the cheese across different contexts/references (Pizza, Wisconsin Cheeseheads, Say Cheese).

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As a child, I dreamed of being a polymath. I was ridiculously curious, and I literally wanted to learn everything there is to learn in the world. It stuck with me for longer than it does for most people, but I grew out of it eventually. But while I don’t want to learn everything anymore, my interests still go in quite a few directions.

My previous Zettelkasten was able to hold the breadth, but I kept myself so busy with collecting, curating and organizing bits of ideas, that I never had the time to sit down and think through an idea on (or of) my own. In other words, I was lacking depth.

I relate to this and this is my primary struggle. I am in my mid 30s and still have not grown out of it.

Realistically, I can’t write about everything I find interesting, so I needed a new way of deciding what to include in my notes.

I essentially dump everything into one single file with most recent information at the top. Then I revisit it and if I think the information is useful elsewhere or still interesting to me, then I will integrate it into my overall notes.

But at the same time it feels right to release what I make back into the world. It makes me feel like a part of a cycle, rather than a hoarder.

Having conversations and engaging with others on what interests you is most important (almost better to a have a conversation or back and forth than a blog post) as that embeds you in our shared/distributed cognition.

Sascha

While true, the point of atomicity is to not to create a conceptual model of ones thoughts but to allow it to contribute to multiple contexts (to me at least).

Sounds a little bit like the true Scotsmen fallacy.

If you were to dissect the various similar concepts, you might end up with:

1. Atomicity as a binary trait. Something is either atomic or not.
2. The principle of atomicity. Based on acceptance of the above-mentioned trait, a set of techniques, methods, guidelines, etc.

You are describing one effect of atomicity, but she is (first-hand knowledge) talking about the principle.

To me, the very aspect you are mentioning is not the point, is essential to the creation of benefits of the principle of atomicity.

Or phrasing it as a question: What is the argument for that the actual point is contribution to multiple contexts and not to create a conceptual model of one's thoughts?

andang76

I had promised myself I'd thoroughly explore the entire story of Nori's difficulty from beginning to end, starting with her initial blog post, making my own initial reflections, and reading the comments on Reddit. Today I just finished watching the video.

I've collected a wealth of thoughts that I now need to develop before reading the final parts.

I can say two things for now, before finishing and the recap.

1) I'm happy to find myself already internalized many (perhaps all) of the insights developed in the video. It's a good confirmation that my Zettelkasten is working well :-)

2) The gap between the Zettelkasten as described by many influencers and the way it's presented in your video is incredible. And this gap is clearly visible in the numerous requests for help I watch every week from those who approach it. I'm not surprised that many people go stuck. Zettelkasten has an horrible mainstream storytelling.

Regarding atomicity, I believe the underlying problem is the misunderstanding that atomic means “small” or “short.” In chemistry, however, atomic actually means “indivisible” (from átomos). In your video, you mentioned hydrogen and plutonium. Some ideas, in order to retain their full meaning, must be expressed more like plutonium than hydrogen. But the core meaning remains one—plutonium, precisely, even if plutonium is 239 time bigger than hydrogen. So simple for me...

andang76

After reading second post of Nori, I think that she is on the right way.
She says that she doen't practice a Zettelkasten, but what she describes is more zettelkastic than many other implementations I've seen :-)

Sascha

@andang76 said:
The gap between the Zettelkasten as described by many influencers and the way it's presented in your video is incredible. And this gap is clearly visible in the numerous requests for help I watch every week from those who approach it. I'm not surprised that many people go stuck. Zettelkasten has an horrible mainstream storytelling.

I am not an influencer with both the perks and problems that comes along with it.

@andang76 said:
After reading second post of Nori, I think that she is on the right way.
She says that she doen't practice a Zettelkasten, but what she describes is more zettelkastic than many other implementations I've seen :-)

She is. We recorded another session that was quite productive.