Information and Knowledge Management, before starting: doubts and questions
Keywords: Zettelkasten, Building a Second Brain, PARA, production system, processing knowledge, information management system.
I'm opening this topic to try to clarify several doubts and questions I have regarding a system for managing information, projects, and knowledge.
I want to resolve these before I begin, hoping to receive some input from those who already have experience. I hope you can help me reach a conclusion.
I will first outline my main ideas, followed by more specific questions. (Sorry for my bad english).__
- I have read the book 'Building a Second Brain', the article on this blog about the introduction to Zettelkasten, and the article discussing the combination of the two methods.
- Before I 'start', I want to resolve some issues; I won't begin until my ideas are very clear; I will not feel ready until then.
- I've been taking notes for a few years now, without using any particular method, but dividing everything into categories (Work, Health, Finance, etc.).
- My purpose to use an information, file, and project management system is driven by a need (that i feel) to organize files and information. Not having order, organization, or principles makes me uncomfortable. Having a kind of categorization, however, makes me feel better, "safe," at ease. This is what I feel when I think about the PARA method (or another organizational method). Knowing where to find things puts me at ease. Furthermore, having a system for managing projects also makes me feel better and motivates me. All this even before applying the method itself.
- My interest in applying an information processing method (Zettelkasten) is dirven by a felt need, when dealing with certain topics,to go deep and to write down somewhere, for future reference, the "solutions" I arrive at. The idea of studying certain things thoroughly and then perhaps forgetting them, discourages me.Writing them instead in a note system that allows me to revisit and connect them with other things is a bit like writing them in stone and keeping them always 'active', never losing the work of study done. **And this factor motivates me. But even here, all this without having started yet, **I don't know if it's a sensible reasoning.
- An example is the information and material that I am collecting to address this same topic: on one hand I feel the need to save the files and extracts in order to organize and on the other hand to summarize, to rework, to process what I learn, what I understand, what I learn ... in short, to write it down somewhere.
- So the idea would be to use the BASB method (with its para, code, etc.) to organize files **(in the file system, in favorites and in various apps) **and notes that don't need processing, such as recipes, extracts, phrases I like and stuff that I don't need to process anyway. And to use the **Zettelkasten method only for those topics where I feel the need to go deeper, to rework, to write. **Forcing myself to use Zettelkasten for everything seems excessive, too time-consuming. Using it only for topics of particular interest, where I feel the need, should give me the energy to do it. That is, those topics where I instinctively feel the desire to write. But this is just an idea, so I ask you what you think.
The questions, specifically, are as follows:
- I haven't yet fully understood what types of notes or topics to use Zettelkasten for: does it make sense to use it "only" for professional research activities and the like, or also for pragmatic-personal interests such as finance, nutrition, work, study and so on? Or is it enough to "collect" and organize everything well with a PARA method, therefore without processing everything, because maybe it would be excessive and too much time would be wasted?
- Or are there no "objective" reasons to adopt it, but it depends on one's mindset? In other words, it's not for everyone, but for those with certain inclinations, like writing and so on?
- If I decide to adopt the Zettelkasten method, would it be a good idea to **distinguish the notes of the BASB method from those of the Zettelkasten method **(because they are formatted differently, due to processing) and therefore not 'link' them together through the system of backlinks, tags, etc?
- About the organization, would it be alright to use the PARA method's "structure" to house the Zettelkasten notes? Or would it be better to use two folders or two different vaults (Obsidian) or even two different software programs? So, for example, inside the "finance" notes folder, there will be both PARA notes and Zettelkasten notes. I shouldn't even need to sort them, since the Zettelkasten notes function based on links, not on how they are organized, right? On the other hand, if I'm "browsing" through the folders, it's always convenient to have the finance Zettelkasten notes inside the finance folder along with the other PARA notes. Or is there a better way to connect these "knowledge" notes (zettel) and informational notes?
I have many more questions, but I'll stop here for now.
I hope that at the end of this process I can achieve a certain "quiet" compared to my current state of confusion and discomfort.
Thanks in advance anyone who wants to give an answer or wants to discuss.
Howdy, Stranger!
Comments
@Zhadàr
First, welcome to the forum!
You have many questions about knowledge management and in particular about how you might use a Zettelkasten to help organize your information.
I'm sure you will get some good ideas here in response to your questions. I only want to address one, which is that you cannot develop the perfect system (for you) without some experimentation. If you have read through the Getting Started section of this web site, then you have the basics to create a Zettelkasten. Start small and grow it slowly. The experience of doing so will help you recognize what works for you (and what does not) and to design your own setup, as your Zettelkasten grows.
Your questions on the forum will then be more specific and informed by what you have tried to do yourself.
This approach has some overhead, in that you may have to revise your system several times or even restructure it. But that is going to happen no matter how well informed you try to make yourself. So - don't be shy, dive in and see what happens. Try out different arrangements of files and combinations of ZK/non-ZK structure. It is only by doing so that you will discover the "best" setup for yourself.
This is how I "organize" my ZK, simply for your information. It may not suit you. I store pretty much all knowledge that I want to preserve in one large ZK, using two types of titles for zettels:
I can access either system via tags or connections to other zettels, or by searching on a title. I can also access the latter type of zettel if I remember the Johnny Decimal categories I have set up. Category 43 happens to be for cooking-related items.
Pretty big...
Some short answers.
You can use Zettelkasten as a thinking/learning tool for many things. No need of having a writing purpose, and neither need of specific topics, there aren't topics more suitable than others.
At this moment I'm developing into my Zettelkasten my knowledge and thoughts regarding veganism, plant-based nutrition, healthy nutrition, general health, cooking, running, LGBTQ world (is seems silly, but I've discovered that I didn't know anything about the life of a transgender) , bias cognitive issues and so on, and many of points emerged in these different contexts can be connected each other even if they seems distant.
As the short/long result of this process, I don't have the purpose of writing a book, but just having a... better life. And it seems to work :-)
I know you feel of having the need of both something like BASB and something like Zettelkasten. A way you can resolve the issue is starting from what you feel closer to your attitudes and needs, and therefore integrating some principles from the other.
In my case, my system has a Zettelkasten base, but over time emerges that I can create into my Obsdian some folders in which I can develop single "projects" that contains smaller subnetworks. I haven't taken the "PARA" concept, but I've taken some kind of "Project" idea.
In the same way, I've realized that I'm not forced to write every note of my zettelkasten using the canonical principles (only literature notes, only classic permanent notes that contains "an idea*"), but filling, when useful, the network with any kind of notes that helps to model into the system something that is valuable, useful, relevant for learning and thinking.
I don't know or remember how the notes into a BASB model are structured, but for example into my Zettelkasten I use daily notes thinked as containers for journaling, and I use them as "literature notes" propedeudical to zettel development.
If you think the Zettelkasten as an plastic model you can shape it as you want.
Regarding the concept of "an idea". Over time I've remodeled into my system the model of "how I must put into zettelkasten" a dozen of times :-).
There's no need to have only reflections, only thoughts, only "rewritings on your own" into your system. Just express what you find useful, relevant, valuable for you today or tomorrow. If a single note is not atomic, if it is an image, if it is a copy-paste, if it is a fact, if how you write today is very different from what you've written last month, it does not matter. You can make your zettelkasten multifaceted and changeable just like your brain.
All of them simply shares the same dynamics. If what you have written pushes you to connect, revisit, explore, thinking over it and thanks to it, you have the "Zettelkasten effect" regardless the specific nature of the notes.
Don't fear to start, don't overthink on how to start as well as you can.
Your system will change hundreds of times in any case.
Just start, a note after another, and when you feel that something something is jamming ask yourself how you can improve.
You can start a Zettekasten into Obsidian with just a small set of folders and a couple of templates. When you will need more complexity, more structure, you can add at that moment.
The most important thing is develop the habit of zettelkasting, creating and revisiting notes frequently, the pleasure of writing something into Obsidian instead of leave it in your head to watch it evaporate after a few days.
Regarding specific questions about how to structure (tags, folders,...), I can say, according to my experience:
For every issue you will find an answer, just asking here :-), but before having these issues you need start.
Welcome @Zhadàr,
It's snowing here, and I'm sitting at my desk, warm, looking out at the winter wonderland. This is probably more than you asked for,
I want to second @GeoEng51's advice to jump in. The water is cold, but you'll warm up quick enough. If you must, dip one foot in, pick some project, turn it into a ZK, and see what happens. Pick your poison- PARA, ZKM, BASB, or whatever software catches your fancy and jump in. I'm thinking about shifting the specifics of my ZK yet again for the umpteenth time.
Your questions are overwhelming, and the way you pose them is paralyzing. Don't let your desire for certainty prevent you from starting.
First, your desire to explore particular topics in depth is precisely what a ZK is designed to facilitate. Revisiting and connecting ideas builds knowledge. These ideas will serve you well.
This is not sensible reasoning.
1. Only part of the zettelkasten method is for retrieval. The best part is how the mind is stimulated during the process of zettelkasting, note-making, and connecting ideas.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by "solutions." This sounds final, but all ideas are malleable.
3. Forgetting is a vital function of the brain. Imagine not being able to forget. This is why we write: to make room for new ideas.
4. Again, ideas aren't written in stone, and you surely don't want to be thinking about every idea all the time. Maybe you are exaggerating. Besides, stones are heavy.
5. Once you start, you will get a clearer picture of all this.
Will Simpson
My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
Thanks to everyone for the answers.
@GeoEng51
About the second type, the example of recepie...you manage it like the other zettel notes? What I think is...a recipie doesn't seem a "knowledge" but (only?) an "information", so you don't "process" it, right? And do you link it with the zettel notes? Or use (back)link only for those notes you process?
Forgive my confusion.
@andang76
As @Sascha said in https://zettelkasten.de/posts/building-a-second-brain-and-zettelkasten/ BASB is a hybrid of (1) information management system and (2) project management system.
The Zettelkasten Method, on the other hand, is a method for processing knowledge.
Collecting and organising information is very different from processing.
So what I've undestood is:
BASB -> Organize -> Informations.
Zettelkasten -> Process -> Knowledge.
They have different purposes, they are not in contrast, because they do different things.
Again Sascha, The two methods are easy to combine because of their little overlap.
My doubts maybe are how?
Many information I need to "save", maybe I don't have the need to process them. A simple recipie, as I said above, should/could be process (with the zettelkasten method)? Maybe I need only to save it.
And maybe if I save it as a note, I should not "link" it like the "zettelkasten" notes, because it has not been processed, so it isn't a "knowledge", is only an information.
Information processed -> Knowledge. Notes about the zettelkasten method, so I have to link them.
Information not processed -> Only information. Notes about the para method, because I only have to organise, so have not to link them? Link only the zettelkasten notes?
@Will
Thanks for your suggestions.
I find also very interesting when you say: The best part is how the mind is stimulated during the process of zettelkasting, note-making, and connecting ideas.
So I ask you, in your experience, if you see, feel, realise this effect and how(!).
The example of recipe is a good example :-)
Maybe you can't "rewrite" a recipe a lot, maybe a recipe doesn't look like a "zettel" written by Luhman.
But you can still use a recipe inside your zettelkasten in many many ways.
Suppose you have a Zettelkasten about nutrition or health or cooking.
That recipe can be connected to other zettels that explore many nutrition aspects.
For example, if you develop thoughts about the question "how to manage iron deficiency?" (I hope it's a correct translation in english, I'm italian so forgive my errors) that can be a typical point developed into a Zettelkasten nutrition, you can have a network that involves foods that contains iron, how to best combine foods to obtain iron absorbtion, for example, "Iron absorption can be improved by combining foods with lemon", so a receipt that contains lemon and legumes can be an istance of the previous principle.
You have combined and connected, into your zettelkasten, two "luhmanesque" zettels and a recipe.
Your recipe collection, in turn, can be organized simultaneously following information management principles. For example, you create your folder "recipes" and you use a well designed system of metadata or tags and so on for a typical information management model, and every recipe can be connected to "food notes" that are involved. Every food note can by connected to "nutrient notes", and when you have a collection of nutrient notes you can build other "principles" involving nutrients, that are closer to the idea of a Zettel. (for example, "meat can be critical because it contains vitamin B12" that produce a further zettel "As vegan I need to manage B12")
It's a silly example, it's a demo that shows that into your zettelkasten
This is my own vision on how to integrate information management with zettelkasten.
There could be other ways, this is an example of what I use.
It's only an example of how far can you go with the zettelkasten if you reject the idea that a zettelkasten has to be just like luhman made it, or just like the example of a mentor you have followed, and if you don't faithfully follow the idea that a zettelkasten must be made only of the notes you found into the tutorials, that remain only basic explanations.
I have only read what I have said above (the book, the articles...), so I don't have much information (and no experience), so I now can only follow what I have read and ask questions. I don't even know where I can deepen the zettelkasten. Are there any books?
Following the rules I should rewrite a note and about the connections (links), I should explain (write in the note) why I connect one note to another. In the example of the recipie...it's difficult to apply. I can't rewrite a simple recipie and could be silly to explain, to write, that the connection between the note "Iron absorption can be improved by combining foods with lemon" and the note-recipie "Water, sugar and lemon", is that in this recipie there is the lemon. Or maybe not, I don't know. What is there to process in a recipie?
But this is regarding the "original" link between the notes. Instead I would use a different type of link, like tags and so on. I would use the zettel connections in his original strict way, and may use another digital instrument like the tags for any other purpose to connect notes. But I don't have any information at moment on how to use tags. I didn't understand well also what you mean with metadata.
I like your example and I'm not sure only about the connection between the full zettels and the "entity" notes. As I have said above, I would not connect them in the zettelkasten way, but maybe, in some way, with tags. A recipie doesn't even seem atomic...
Ah I'm italian too.
My first answers:
It is more about personal practice than reading books, I think. The "model" I've explained is the result of my two years of practice, try and retry after dead ends, facing issues and searching how to get around them, changing the way I do the things dozens of times.
Many of the books are set according to a pretty theoretical vision of Zettelkasten. I often say that Zettelkasten is not... well explained in general.
In your specific case, just write the recipe into your zettelkasten into a "recipes" folder as you have. It is not important that you can't totally rewrite with your own words.
You can use your recipe in two ways at the same time:
Don’t worry if what you write seems trivial, too short today. Ask yourself if it is useful. If it is useful, it is worth recording.
And maybe it may seem too short now, but it can grow in the future, or generate other ideas.
ok, I'm not a big user and a fan of tag usage, so I can't explain so much here :-)
For metadata, in the example I've taken, I can intend the "data", different from textual content, that make a recipe more... "informative".
In a recipe a typical metadata could be "cooking time", maybe. Also the author, the type of dish , the cuisine (italian, french,...), categories of some kinds, and so on.
Almost my notes have almost "creation date", a "type" attribute (it could be "recipe" in this case). If you use Obsidian, they are typical into the frontmatter properties.
this kind of data can be useful for searches, often combined with dataview
A recipe note express... a recipe :-). It is one single concept.
If you split a recipe into two halves you lose the information of that thing.
If into a note you have two recipes, maybe in this case you don't have an atomic note.
A recipe can contain reference to many other things (ingredients, for example) but if you dont "describe" every single ingredient into your recipe, you only cite them or better link them, the "atomicity rule" is not broken. If you have the recipe and "what is x" for each of ingredients, you don't have atomicity.
And always remember that atomicity is not a rigid an strict rule. There are case in which it's better to have a non atomic note, so you can use it a non atomic representation.
@Zhadàr said:
I don’t think clearly until I write. My thoughts are scattered and chaotic on their own. The moment I start writing, capturing notes, linking them, and watching connections emerge, I step into a different space. It’s in this flow, this structured movement of thought, that understanding takes shape. That process—zettelkasting—is more than just note-taking; it’s how I make sense of ideas and how understanding is gained.
Will Simpson
My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
You may be unnecessarily confusing "information" and "ideas". Any information can be captured in a zettel; it doesn't matter whether you classify it as a deep, well formulated idea, or a preliminary idea (that needs more work) or just a piece of data (that you don't expect to change). They all have a place in your ZK. Some zettels will be reviewed and refactored (processed) multiple times; some only once or even not at all after they are first written. It doesn't matter. It's all good information and deserves to be tagged, connected to other zettels, and somehow woven into your web of knowledge.
@Zhadàr reading your questions I think that you have developed a little of fear and overthinking about Zettelkasten :-)
Since we share the italian language and this makes things very easy for me, if you want we can do a video call and I can explain you better. Answering and understanding the answers to such big doubts all together I think is complicated.
It's a pleasure for me, don't hesitate if you are available.
Hello and welcome.
I have a very opinionated take regarding PARA and BASB: we've had some friendly debate in here, but I've come to regard Tiago Forte as a complete snake-oil peddler in the world of productivity and knowledge work. (Source: I've read and studies all his books, and took the BASB training.)
To me PARA is anthetical to knowledge work and a Zettelkasten in particular. A Zettelkasten is based around idea emergence and the (guided) free roaming of the mind in a creative and/or processing state. Therefore, there is a gratuitous component to the work to some extent. You are doing this in view of a result (otherwise, why do it) but it needs that creative component where you roam and explore subjects, connect them, think in a creative way, fall down rabbit holes.
PARA is the opposite, it's (in Forte's words) action-oriented. (And don't get me started on the parroting BASB promotes as original thought) It does not want creativity, it wants actionable material for deliverables. It's confusing the process with the result, and creative work is about the process first. Results are McGuffins, just the tool you use to focus yourself in a given direction.
Now people do have both cohabiting in the same environment (Sascha for instance) but AFAIK they are both distinct systems living side by side with different outcomes. In other words: PARA probably works for making sure you pay your bills on time and maybe your kitchen renovation. Anything more complex will rely so much better on a Zettelkasten workflow.
The idea of a Zettelkasten is that you do not have order. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Yes, it's terrifying – oh, I've been there for years – but there are ways to mitigate this, and the simplest ones are:
I feel you and that is exactly why I studied – and actively practiced – the Zettelkasten method for years before it finally, really "clicked" for me. It's perfect for this – I am using this for creative writing, everything I learn and come across in life, my therapeutic work even.
Embrace a very important truth: Zettelkästen are messy and it's great. Free yourself from the dictum you see everywhere that notes need to be "permanent", "evergreen", finished and oh-all-so polished. A sentence or two riddled with typos encapsulating the idea you want to capture and remember work as long as you can figure out what the hell you meant in a few months time. Capture it, place it, let it simmer, it will grow if relevant. If not, that's fine.
Best of luck!
"A writer should write what he has to say and not speak it." - Ernest Hemingway
PKM: Obsidian + DEVONthink, tasks: OmniFocus, production: Scrivener / Ableton Live.
In your life you need to manage even kitchen renovation, so you need both models in the end :-)
And there are tasks in which you need something in the middle. Even in kitchen renovation you may need to develop ideas :-)
I've found useful introducing into my Zettelkaten the ability to use systematicity when I feel the need, there are domains in which I have a benefit (I'm not a creative writer, neither a writer in general). Sometimes I process "top down", for example, and I process "towards a goal" instead of in an emergent mood.
And vice versa, in all my "action-oriented" activities I always leave the door open to develop ideas, reflections, abstractions from the tasks I do. I can develop a bunch of zettels about nutrition using a shopping list as a starting note...
I think merging both worlds is possible, but it is too hard bringing the "whole" zettelkasten and joining it with the "whole" BASB. Too big beast, impossibile to manage, useless.
My actual system, maybe, is made of 60% of the zettelkasten principles, 10% of an information management system (not necessarily and not only BASB), and the remaining has not a name, are my own ideas of notetaking :-)
This is exactly what I use PARA for. I have a separate vault in Obsidian called
Second Brainin which I store notes using the PARA system. These notes are entirely made up of information I need to reference to complete a task, but which I don't necessarily need to use for anything long-term.Here are some notes currently in my Second Brain vault:
It's true that all of these notes could live inside my zettelkasten, and perhaps they could be connected to some ideas that live therein. But these notes are mostly noise in the context of the kind of thinking I want to do with my zettelkasten. They're bits of information that need to live somewhere — anywhere at all — in service of some kind of a goal or ongoing work. They're not going to be relevant a few months from now, let alone a few years.
I've tried combining my BASB vault with my zettelkasten, but the two systems are really made to serve different needs. Using them together might be possible, but it doesn't work out for me personally.
Oh, one more thing: most of Tiago Forte's work is regurgitating the same few ideas over and over again. The entire Building a Second Brain book could be compressed down to a single blog post, and everything else he has published is just a rehash of the same ideas. That's not to say that the ideas are useless — I use the PARA system in my todo app, file system, and Second Brain vault — but he hasn't really had anything new to say about them since the original publication of his BASB principles (which themselves are based on David Allen's GTD).
@andang76
The metadata you use are "automatic" when you create a note?
The type, the categories seems to me...a sort of structure, instead of using folders.
Anyway, I overthink, yes, too much, I know.
I'm in the middle of a process of change of my entire digital life and notetaking is a part of it.
I'm skeptical to use zettelkasten to everything, but I have to try to understand better this point.
But now I believe I have enough information to start.
I have many other questions but maybe is better if I open other specific topics about them (some regarding the zettel method, others regarding the management, others regarding IT tools).
So, there are no resources that we can define as "gold standard" regarding the (apply of the) zettelkasten method?
And about the communities, are there others places like this forum? I've not found much on the web.
@Will
Thanks, your words encouruge me.
@GeoEng51
This is still a point that I have to resolve. I need more time.
@KillerWhale7
I'm less skeptical against the PARA method (although I don't still use it!).
Because, for me, they are two different stuff. I can't use the zettelkasten instead of PARA and viceversa.
I need to organise files and folders in my personal computer. I can't use the zettel method fot this, at least. And I have to use some other method. Also randomly is a sort of method. I can extend this idea with notes that I don't have/want to process with the zettelkasten; or I don't have the time for it.
If I want to "process" information and ideas I can't use the para method, because it don't process anything. I have to use the zettelkasten or another method like it.
These are my thoughts at the moment...
Some of metadata can be automatic (like creation date, for example), others are manually put.
The overhead of metadata management vs their usefulness is a matter of balance that every person has to find on his own.
For information management purposes I think a bit of metadata are required. The metadata you require is what support you during searches.
Thought and knowlege development in Zettelkasten require many less metadata, for my experience, connections between notes make the biggest work.
About communities, I'm on Reddit in Zettelkasten group and Obsidian (the specific tool I use) group too. Obsidian has its own forum and discord too.
What to suggest, it is... a big issue for me, honestly. I haven't never found a resource that completely resolves the learning zettelkasten question.
My learning has been very non-linear, I've discussed into this forum and read essays in this site, I've read many articles on Medium, I've watched many videos on youtube, and I've merged all the fragments taken from this stuff.
I've read four of the few available books (Scheper, Bob Doto, Allosso, Ahrens) only in the last few months, after I had already developed my own Zettelkasten, so I haven't "learn" Zettelkasten from these, only refined a little eventually.
In my experience the best of these books is from Bob Doto, even if for my taste is too succint and i'd like to see much more writing examples. I like Dan Allosso Book, too, you can find it online.
Other resources I can suggest, could be:
Another thing I like, less known, Chelle Meadows videos: https://www.youtube.com/@ChelleMeadowsConsulting/videos
She explain a pretty simple model derived from analog Zettelkasten, It's easy to follow but there is an issue to consider in this model: there are constructs that I personally would not use (her taxonomy of categories and index, if I remember).
In general a model like this or others must be considered as an example of how to do the Zettelkasten, not the rule to blindly follow in all their aspects. Take what you find useful, don't take all the features.
Maybe you could start from Chelle Meadows, why not. Remembering that it is not required to mimic her system, you can always skip, in every model, the things you don't convince.
Read something on Bob Doto site, consider even his book and/or dan Allosso book, and zettelkasten.de site and forum of course :-)
There are many "problematic" things into Zettelkasten world that you can postpone. For me, for example, use of folgezettel, and use of ids. If you feel them too complex at start, just simply start without them.
Start simple as you can, build the minimum viable vault on obsidian that let you start. few folders, simple templates for notes, few kind of notes. Complexity can wait.
https://writingslowly.com/2024/06/13/a-minimal-approach.html
@Zhadàr
Just read this:
https://zettelkasten.de/communications-with-zettelkastens/#comments-on-the-translation
That's all you'll need.
Here are my 2c:
The Zettelkasten is very forgiving. Rather start and get hands-on experience, instead assuming that you can avoid mistakes by theoretical learning.
The actual driver of learning is taking action, since the Zettelkasten Method is based on practical experience and skill. Both are only acquired through action.
I try to develop techniques and methods the other way around: I have an idea, develop theoretical understanding and then implement it to test the idea. Many of the ideas fail, which is normal.
By trying to "get it" first and then take action, you just delay the feedback mechanism necessary to actually get it.
My impression is that you have a precise idea on the first half of the puzzle: Your felt needs and motivation.
The second half is understanding the given requirements of the tasks that you want to solve.
Example:
Some people shy away from the necessary work to deeply process books. They formulate this by saying that processing a book deeply would mean that they spend too much time with each book, therefore reducing the quantity. The concern is that you learn less.
But if you want to master content in such a way that you have access to it, when you are in a debate, during a meeting or when you solve a problem, you'll have to put in the work, basically opening many doors to the content.
So, I'd suggest that you dive deeper into the requirements for the outcomes that you desire. Then see, if your needs and commitment matches with these requirements.
They govern two different domains:
The 2nd brain prepares the actual processing.
For example:
This is how "longer VO2max Intervalls" looks like. It is a combination of articles to read and process but also commentary on how to approach the reading.
These are snippets of corresponding material in my ZK:
In a nutshell: The 2nd brain is for open tasks, the ZK is the place where I accomplish the tasks while having past efforts made available.
I am a Zettler
@s3thi
Why do you use two vaults for para and zettelkasten?
Shouldn't the zettel method be independent of the folder structure?
@andang76
Thank you very much for all this info!
@ChrisJoh
Thanks.
@Sascha
Thanks for the answer (and for the articles).
So the main reason for using the zettel method is a creative work?
Is this the cornestone to distinguish which notes apply the method and wich not to?
So could it be too much applying it for all activities I have to do? kitchen renovation, buying a car, studying a new tongue, etc. Many activities imply find information (and save it), reasoning, notes. And all of this could be processed by the zettel method and them will generate new links, new ideas and so on. All notes for everything could feed my zettelkasten, right? Costs: time and energy. But it works? Is the game worth the candle?
Or, in the end, it worth only if I have a creative word to do, like a book, a essay, an article, a research project and so on?
For some topics I want to deepen, because I like it or because I must do it for my job, maybe it could be enough to gather information, resources, gather them and maybe create notes applying the progressive synthesis? (that, you say me, is not of course a processing method like the zettelkasten)
About ZK and BASB, do you "connect" the two type of notes? Do you use the same software?
I emboldened the most important question. Why would you use a powerful processing method to something that you don't want to process?
The Zettelkasten Method is a processing method for ideas. So, when you process ideas, use the ZKM.
I wrote about this in the above mentioned article.
I am a Zettler
A lot of people keep both kinds of notes in the same vault (i.e zettels and everyday notes they need for accomplishing their daily tasks). In fact, many people only ever create a single Obsidian vault and put everything inside it, regardless of what method or methods they might use to organize different parts of their vault.
I like to keep my vaults separate just because I find it easier to switch my mind between different ways of thinking when I have separate digital "spaces" for doing each kind of thinking. It's kind of like having one part of your home dedicated to working on your novel and another one dedicated to entertainment. It's difficult to accomplish this kind of separation in the digital realm, but you can get close by using different color schemes, fonts, or apps for different tasks.
This might not be the best way to approach your notes, but it works for me. If you prefer a single vault for everything then that's fine too! As long as it works for you and helps you think better.
Why do I need to approach the two kinds of notes in different ways? Well, that's because there's a fundamental difference between BASB and Zettelkasten, which Sascha wrote about in this article: https://zettelkasten.de/posts/building-a-second-brain-and-zettelkasten/. There's also this discussion on the Mac Power Users forums that might be helpful to read through: https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/basb-and-zettelkasten-are-opposite-approaches/18117
To summarize: BASB is all about getting things done as efficiently as possible and moving on, whereas Zettelkasten is about developing deep, lasting knowledge and connecting ideas together. In my opinion, the two systems are designed to serve entirely different needs and should not be mixed.
E.g your Zettelkasten might help you write a paper, but it's not the right place to store information about your cat's medication. On the other hand, your BASB notes might help you with your home renovation, but using it to store notes about a CompSci paper you just read will guarantee that you never do anything useful with that knowledge.
I hope this makes the purpose of having two vaults clear. Happy to talk more about it if you need!