On note 9/8c The problem of interdependence?
(9/8c) Zu überlegen wäre etwas zum Problem der Interdependenzunterbrechung.
I wonder what is meant by that? And is it an interruption or disruption? Multiple storage might be interdependent, but to pull away the material a new topic can be added. So I think on a digital Zettelkasten this is no longer a problem.
Post edited by Sascha on
my first Zettel uid: 202008120915
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I was reading a lot into this myself because it resonates with my work.
"Interdependence", as in: one cannot be without the other, the user needs the ZK, the ZK needs a user. "Disrupt" sounds like a better fit since "interrupt" is about time, short-lived. My guess is that this Zettel would rather make severing the interdependent connection a talking point than how to briefly escape the clutches of one's notes.
Some programming background I bring to the table:
"Dependency" is a technical term used to describe relations in software code, too, and more often than not the goal is to remove dependencies or limit them in order to keep everything as small as possible, and as intelligible as possible. Otherwise, you end in "dependency hell" and don't know what your program is even comprised of.
Inter-dependence then would be even an even worse state, because when two pieces depend on each other, you can't replace either. In code, they're entangled. For all intents and purposes, they thus act as one messy whole, although the labels suggest there should be 2 parts. You can't grab one without the other, and so you always grab too much.
I think "interdependence" on 9/8c is about the
User↔Zettelkastenrelationship.I certainly do depend on my ZK; I can't answer a lot of questions without it. (Unlike @sfast who remembers 99% of his notes it seems to me) -- and the ZK can't fill itself from magic pixie dust, it needs me to change (grow, shrink, or wobble).
A multi-user ZK reduces dependency on a single person. You still need users, but not one in particular. That's redundancy, and that's also a possible solution to the code problem: offer alternatives, and design that they can be switched in, and then you have reduced the dependency between the components (or 'decoupled' them). The Zettelkasten lives on without you.
As for the other direction: I could see that carrying a digital Zettelkasten in a pocket reduces a very physical aspect: dependence on a location. Luhmann needed to be in his office to access his notes. Digital ZK users can use their phones if they want.
Still they depend on what's inside the Zettelkasten, or rather what comes out when they interact with their ZK's, no matter how they access it.
Can't see a way out there; sure, you can memorize some things, but that's not the lure of the Zettelkasten. It's not about forgetting, it's about the ability to make complex thoughts and build novel ideas over time.
Asking to become independent from one's ZK as a thinking partner thus is akin to asking to become independent from other humans to have dialogues -- it sounds neither sensible nor desirable
Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/
Interdependence interruption/disruption is a term that he used in his work. I don't know if there is a specific meaning term that one needs to be aware of. Luhmann frequently changed the meaning of words and than used them with their changed meaning in mind which makes it very annoying to double-check if he is now speaking as a normal person or in his own vocabulary.
Having skimmed two works of his (Social Systems, Society of society) it doesn't seem to be used in a very ubscure way. So, I succumb to the temptation of interpreting this note. It could mean just "How would I deal when my Zettelkasten gets corrupted?" or on the other side "Could be my Zettelkasten used by another person?" or "Can I function without my Zettelkasten?" or "I cannot function without my Zettelkasten. That is a problem." or "I need to write something down that it is not a problem if my ZK gets corrupted."
In some other texts, I find the phrase that interdependence interruptions/disruptions could be established/installed. What that means? I am not sure enought to have an opinion on that.
In German, "Unterbrechung" can have both a temporal meaning (interruption) or a structural one (disruption). But he also have a concept named "temporalisation", so it could be the case that sometimes it should translated to interruption and sometimes disruption.
To me, this note is highly ambigious. It reminds me of being drunk and "philosophising" on a party. It is almost dreamlike in its evasiveness. (Which perfectly reflects my experience when I talked to students, researchers and teachers on his systems theory)
I am a Zettler
Aye, you nailed it spot on Christian.
Tinybase: plain text database for BSD, Linux, Windows (& hopefully Mac soon)
@ctietze Once you have those complex thoughts and novel ideas, you still want to remember them
I’m frequently re-discovering ideas that populate my ZK. That’s why I like to have access to it when I’m mobile and not just sitting at my computer.