The Wizard’s mistake
This discussion was created from comments split from: Call for "Critique my Zettel"-Notes.
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OK, I give it a try
As I write in french, I'll post the french original post to check the traduction I join with it.
Hum… I don't use tag at all, only for statut of my note. I think the main article and the explicite title are enough to guess what it is about. [[4.0.]] -> Ideas of story, [[4.1.]] -> ideas about this story of perticular. I do that when I begin to have a clutter of the same subject into my Zettelkasten, like colored tab on a paper one. Mythologie has its own, Chimic as well, Writing as art too, Art theory and How to make my own painting (you'll never know what "blue" means until you make one with pure pigments ♡)… I identify a person with a small letter at the beginning of the name and that is enough for me ( [[A.Léonard de Vinci]] [[O.Oscar Wilde]]… I handle my citations in my Zettelkasten this way.
So, enough blabla, time for my note :
alias: L'Erreur du Magicien
L'erreur du Magicien.
Liens::
Parent:: [[4.0.]] [[4.1.Roman.Aux prises des ombres]]
Source...............................
Il pensait que sa vie n'avait pas de valeur, puisqu'il était seul
Rencontrer Chihiro lui a rappeler son vrai prénom, son origine, son identité, l'a rendu à lui-même
Ce qui me parle...........................
Le côté erreur tragique([[Genre.Tragédie]] - quand le destin est déjà écrit). Il n'a pas pu se libérer à moins de sacrifier quelque chose : le seul gain de sa quête auprès de Yubaba était le pouvoir, il a vendu son âme
La puissance qu'il avait acquise et l'image du magicien puissant, savant, à la botte d'une femme plus forte, mais surtout plus vicieuse
Ce que je veux en faire :
Magoria/Blog...........................
```
Content
This note is an awesome example on how the layers of evidence can be applied.
The central thought is in the middle here. The anchor of the thought is the a specific case of sacrificing wholeness (Self) for power. Haku's Story is just the nudge to think about this. Even your re-specification is somewhat auxiliary. Not in importance but in structure.
My recommendation is to divide this note into three:
This orders the notes into general pattern and instances. You can then use the generalisation as a tool. Example: If you apply this pattern to one of your stories. You can use the note on the archetypical pattern as a checklist if you presented your reader with all the ingredients necessary to sense the meaning. (e.g. "Is the sacrifice presented in an emotionally impactful way")
The content and the links are all about fiction. Therefore, I think you have great potential by connecting fiction with non-fiction. Concepts like loneliness, solitude, paranoia and trauma are heavily researched and you could ground your writing the reality of the psyche is (or what science claims about it). Concepts like sacrifice and power are main topics of religion which can be a source of powerful images. (The Sacrifice of Odin and of Jesus are not by chance center points of two very different belief systems). Redemption is not only a religious concept but also a concept of ethics.
About Haku:
Title
An even better title, depending on your understanding and way of writing, would include the nature of the mistake. In this case: Sacrificing the Self for the wizard's power. Here are some title recommendations:
These titles are based on the assumption that the central thought is the specific mistake a wizard can make and not the source material (phenomenon)
Tags
Links
Using Obsidian nudges you a bit towards wiki-like linking because in edit mode the complete file title needs to be put into the double-brackets. Evidence for that is to be found in the lack of link context.
Link context are especially an opportunity for fiction writers because meaning and (symbolic) context are what story makes unique. One could say that the goal of non-fiction is to be the least symbolic and the goal of fiction is to be hyper-symbolic (patterns within patterns within patterns).
Summary
I hold back on the content side since I won't take from the adventure of writing your story.
This note is high level. Some of my critique is specific to my personal way of thinking about story which is more formal and less open. This lead me to judge mere associations more negatively and more precise linking more positively than it might be beneficial to your individual optimal point.
Where could you go?
Surprisingly, I see very little about beauty and ugliness in your note. This might be an aspect that could lead you in a emotionally impactful direction. There is good reason that Yubaba as the dark feminine is so ugly, Chihiro is neutral (neither a pretty girl, nor an ugly duckling, not even tomboyish) and Haku is beautiful. Also: There is a lot to learn if you ask yourself about the beauty and/or ugliness of certain images you create.
I tried to use beauty and ugliness as an access to meaning and symbolism of story to demonstrate the power of this category.
Comment to my comment: I write about story as if I was Mr. Supersmart. This stems from my conviction to my reasoning, my temperament and for style (less words, less grammar to worry about). It surely does not stem from an insane wisdom and competence.
Also: In this case, I used mostly the framework of 7 Basic Plots by Christopher Booker to guide my claims and statements about story.
I mostly stayed away from commenting on your own story because I don't think it is ethical to touch stories that are not your own.
my 2.1 cents so far.
I am a Zettler
Hi ! I will share my first reactions now, and come back later to develop my thoughts about your deep analysis later, when I will finish proceeding it internally, because I will have questions, and they will pop up (obviously, late at night just before sleep).
First impressions : (14h00)
Thank you a lot ! I am used to informational long-form writings thanks to my (relatively short) academic studies, and this exercise of "inspirational note" is experimental, at this state. I see I have a lot of improvements to make, and I think it is truly awesome ! What a challenge, your critic motivate me A LOT.
I will just come back into something really relevant you say : beauty, ugly, and form language. I did not comment it, you are right… And I realized that because for me, it is obvious. I draw since I am a child, and work in the art field since I am 15. So… I did squeeze this point for keeping track of my thoughts. The other thing is : nor my characters neither their backstory are built, I did not approach the character design yet. But I will certainly build them during summer and will have the need of this kind of inputs.
You are right, the concepts of beauty and ugliness in fiction deserve their own series of notes, I have a lot to explain to myself and dig something inside it. And other forms as well. And psychology.
My characters' names seem to float in the middle of my notes "Ombre" and "Asura", they are "obvious" to me as well. I began to write this note and then, my neurons heat and "OH YEAH that would be the missing part". Since, my ideas refined themselves. I am a quick writer, but my way of processing ideas to work them looks like a slow digestion. I play with ideas like a Rubik's cube and when I find a match for the first steps, I go further, and further…
About Haku : it totally could be a difference between translation. I watched the film many times with my son, who don't know how to read, so we had to look at it in VF (french voices). But the studios who took care of Ghibli's translation were sometimes… Hum… I don't find a polite word, in fact. Haku, in the French version, said something like "no one waits for me anymore".
After some hours of reflection : (20h00)
I have a coffee in my hand, my brain worked on your message this afternoon.
Reality lasagnas
I made this note before or while we discussed about layers of evidence. You show them through my note, and now I have my hands on it, I think I understand this concept better. I will see if I can apply it in the future
From fleeting to exploitable note
You are right, I should divide this note into three parts. Haku character is an entry point to the concept that inspired me, and it should be seen like this.
So, I should -if I understand it right :
In a few words : "dig deeper" !
Links and software :
Right now, I am switching into ID filename, which nudges me into contextualize more my links. Less wiki-like links, more contextual links to create meanings and convey symbols.
I have successfully tweaked Zettlr now, but it lacks one major feature from my point of view : quick switcher. I come from IDE software, I write my novels in Sublime Text 4 (before convert it to HTML with Pandoc and add it into Sigil) and for a mysterious reason, I did not succeed in making René's package work on my soft. So Obsidian stays the more agile software to my point of view, because it does not change my way of work and I don't need to mouse or to list all my files into the file explorer to open something.
Critic my story could be a new thread ?
The frame of "critic my note" is not suitable to critic the story it contains, and, on my note, the story just begins to build itself.
However, a "critic my story" call could be a fascinating thread as well, and I would welcome ideas and tactful suggestions with a smile, just like for my note. Because an artist develops its skills through the confrontation between visions of the world.
In my art school, we made "critic my drawing" session. It was really profitable for everyone : the one who critics train their vision, the one whom drawing is criticized could see their work through others' eyes.
The visual aspect of beauty :
Disclaimer : This not the Zettler padawan who writes this part, but the writer with art and art history background. Maybe you are conscious about that, but it really matters to me. And I have to warn you here : I am strongly opiniated on this subject.
Art is about choices.
The three examples you gave were from films. They were relevant in this context. But I really want to remind us that we write texts. We made the choice, conscienciously, to convey story through writing.
A story is a story, but visual clues are not our material while we write a story. We have to tickle the reader's mind with words. A whole stream in litterature right now is to make writers believe that a novel should be built like a film with visual clues inside it. If we follow it, we cut ourselves, as writers, from what makes our art beautiful, because playing with words to let the reader's brain creating something is the essence of our art. We are not only pictures generators, but also abstract feelings, sensations, passing time, abstract concepts, ideas…
I would like to reformulate "show don't tell", which is totaly in line with cinema good practices, into "demonstrate, not say". Demonstrate, with words, the effect of time passing, the emotional outburst of your character, the evolution of his/her/its behavior, and so on…
It especially matters in a genre like Fantasy. What readers wants ? Something they can't experiment here, in the real world. "Bring me where I can't go by myself". Dragons, magic, epic, gods, fairies, kamis, "onirisme", awe, marvelous, terror, fantastic. Visual is not the only path to convey them. Neither the most effective.
And I have to add another warning here : a lot of scenarists who writes books about writings come from Campbell's Monomyth. It's a big no for me. Campbell's monomyth is a psychoanalyst book. The others promise you to give you easy tools to write a book… From my point of view, psychoanalyst method correspond to the Spider analogy of Francis Bacon, the others changes you into Ants : (I think you know this citation but…)
Bacon, Francis. The New Organon, Book One, 1620.
I am not a master myself. But I think we would all gain to share our insights
So keep on being Mr. Supersmart here, I think I understand the frame you place, and the posture you take to explain things. You don't need to be Charles Baudelaire or Dante Alighieri to have interesting insights and knowledge to share.
And there the random pop-up thoughts again.
Inspiration is indeed inspiration. It does not have to be rigourous for most part, unless you need a biological representation of the heart… And I would pay to see what kind of inspiration lays here. I sometimes play with random ideas from obscur demonic magic website and… yeap. Random ideas from any undefined culture without any bibliography, reference to the origin of the myth or whatever. But hell, how to say "no" to the picture of a Queen Lilith of Hell ? I don't know. I really don't know.
Let's see if you can relate here:
Drawing is a way of creating a univers of emotions. I create "mood", ambiance and aesthetic laws with drawings, as well as pure design. Visual inspiration is a necessity as well, to understand things but also to generate emotions and inspire new story. I see emotions as a creative fuel.
Here it is an "iconic" one of one of my main character. She carries something, Goddess Astrae's Wish, the one which created the whole univers. I use it as an inspiration, but also as a leading clue for the story building. You have to be your own art director.
You can learn too :
If you want to, I can find you some solid lessons in English to learn. I am not Michel-Angelo myself and… you say it yourself : inspiration is inspiration. It does not matter how well you draw and paint, as long as you obtain something "workable". Take a look on storyboard for example !
Drawing is a skill you can work
And there is my question :
I played with your drawing of conceptual and symbolic association since this afternoon and maybe I don't understand something, because I have difficulties to figure how it looks like. It seems you elaborate a sophisticated visual association language, don't you ? What form does it take ?
Risky supposition here :
The more I read about your work, the more I feel that the thing you like the most is to create symbolic patterns of meanings, like threads weaving a fabric. It is a way of seeing a story, but if I was your teacher, I would ask you to write a short children story. You are insightfull and have laser eyes on many things, but I feel like you miss the "event" part maybe (big "maybe" here) ? A story is also a suite of events and characters in logical interaction. There is not absolute "good" and "bad" approach, but seeing other approachs strengthens skills. I will definitively beneficiate from your symbolic view and the layers of reality, by the way.
However, take it with a pinch of salt : I only express my intuition based on the message I read.
I hope you don't mind an incidental note of agreement on this.
Campbell's Hero's Journey is a dead end, in my opinion. At the risk of misinterpreting the Zen koan about the tiger and the strawberry, I prefer the "existential vice" to the hero's journey.
GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0.
Yeap. It can be interesting to read, for personnal culture, for ideas and inspiration. But the way it is used now is a "how to standardize an art industry - recipes and manual of utilisation".
If, as writers, we follow the trend, we will die. Novels will become the next way of writing scenarii, but not piece of art by themselves. Example : "The Expanse", the serie, was a serie of novel, written by Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank who are also scenarist and producer.
"Why we should read a novel, when the serie/film will add a lot of the missing visual informations from the book ?"
I don't know the solution. But I will keep studying novels and litterature rather than read scenarists learning books.
Bouddhism carry a lot of pieces of interesting story and ideas itself, indeed. Do you have some ressources to help me to understand "existential vice" ?
From what I understand and what I know about Bouddhism, this koan is a parabol of life itself. Tigers are birth and death, the mice is the time we have as a living thing, the guy hanging itself in vine is the live we live now, the strawberry is the only thing at our reach. The guy just accepts to die soon and rather than fighting against this truth, he just eats a strawberry. Fatalism.
I could not do better than link to the brief poem, "All you did," by Kay Ryan. http://www.ashokkarra.com/2016/01/kay-ryan-all-you-did/
There are many interpretations-perhaps eating the strawberry was a distraction from the problem of survival that the protagonist, whom the reader might recognize, has apparently given up on. The pleasure of eating a strawberry or the more difficult and painful attempt to find a way out--which of these alternatives is more meaningful? Perhaps the koan suggests the potential of pain to indicate what is most important.
GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0.
Thanks for sharing that poem; I liked it. It seems a meditation on changing circumstances and changing perspectives. In the end, it is still just perspective - until we fall and even then, only when we hit the bottom, that it is consequence.
Maybe that is just my mood. I started watching a Korean TV drama/series last night that deals with suicide in a very visceral way. A series about Grim Reapers who try to prevent them. It's an odd choice for a TV series.
Apologies - I'm way off topic here.
It mights be, you are right, and I would agree if I did not know Bouddhisme Zen. The only thing that matters in Zen is the moment, right here, right now. "You are only a human belonging of a living world in constant movement. Just sit down, and observe it." While eating a strawberry, he forgets about life, death, ineluctable end. Nature will kill you, because it is how it works. But before that, it offers you something. Stop panicking about things you can't change. I think, from my (relative and small) knowledge of Japanese Zen secte (because that is the origin of this koan) that the vign, the tigers and the mice eating the vign are metaphors of the process of life.
Thank you for the poem
I process it in my lair until I extract something, I will maybe ask you some question later.
Wow, a serie I should not see, so. Thank you for sharing your impression about the poem, it will help me to understand it
Trying to get back to the topic :
Right now, I am changing my files names into zettel ids, to enforc me to create more context when linking my zettels. Tuesday, my son will be in vacation with me, so we'll take a look into Chihiro again. I'll note archetypes there.
In that case I'll stick to math (which I keep mostly secret), technical notes on LaTeX macros and my execrable cartoons.
GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0.
Forbidden operation.
Operator needed to confront points of view and find some truth.
Error code: 403
Keep on confronting me.
I am assertive, but if I would wait approbation without question, I would adopt a stupid chihuahua, or a dumb labrador.
You are neither stupid, nor dumb.
As I said, without the perticular Zen context, I would agree with your interpretation. I carry mine, you carry yours, I will listen your arguments and we will learn something in the process.
I add that I am dumb when it comes to interpretation. I see the "how" but not the "why", unless I have time to proceed. My brain looks anywhere, but not where it should have. As a result, I often finish with bizarre interpretations. So, most of the time, you'll be more accurate than I will be.
Don't hide into your nest, or I will pull it down fiber by fiber. It's a kind of reflexe, someone I really care about react usualy just like you. And don't say that your drawings are exercrable, because I like them a lot. I am an artist, I can't have bad taste. Understood ?
It might be the westerner's mind but I don't think a koan answers a question or is a riddle to be solved. It is rather a confrontation and however you deal with the confrontation is not part of the koan but rather part of you.
The koan gives no hint to the correct behavior. The man just eats the strawberry and observes the taste. And I am just listening to a story that end with a question.
So, the lesson learned from this koan is rather to learn to observe than to impose one's already existing value judgement of what is right and wrong.
I am a Zettler
I did not see the "right and wrong" notion in the koan. Maybe with the mice, which can be white and black on some versions, but it can be interpreted as the balance between opposite and in all things, or the passage between states.
Is it a direct reaction of my last message ? Because yes, the confrontation part is mine, no doubt
However, to confront and discuss interpretations and meanings also gives interest to texts. Koans functions seem to help approching the satori state. It is made to turn them in order to find something.
Indeed. Seizing the moment. The story could be the strawberry itself.
Those are all good options. I judge such options through the lens of usefulness: Can I create a tool that I can add to my tool box?
I'd rather suggest to write something more analytic. Fandom-Wikis are to me too documentary. Of course, I use them as sources myself. But in my own Zettelkaten I want to create story-tool infused psychological analysis of characters. So, for example, I create a functional character model for a character if I want to get access to the functional aspects of the character. Or I will create a symbolic analysis and connect it to my symbolism-area of my Zettelkasten.
I want the material to be pre-cooked, so I can just eat it.
I do that, too. The instances and the Archetypes inform each other. In the end, I like to have ripped open everything that is important to a character, but at the same time give me something I can connect with aesthetically. For that, an epigraph can be good. But you can draw very well. If I had that ability I'd create a nice drawing to make something iconic.
The Archetypes of course need a foundation in real characters. So, each instance is an opportunity to deepen my understanding of the archetype and therefore improves my repertoire to deal with the archetypical layer.
I like this a lot: It is similar to programming: There is the code (the story) but there is a lot of commentary and test-code. I write fiction and make heavy, heavy use of references to other non-fiction notes and pretend that everything I write needs to be backed up by sources.
This might be stiffling for some people. But it could be managed by separating the writing and the integration into the Zettelkasten structure. Similar to the separating of writing and editing.
Brandon Sanderson said that the outlining and structuring happens anyhow. Some writer's do it in the front end (like him) and others do it in the back end (like Stephen King). To me, this is writing testcode that prepares the editing. So, how to fit it in the whole process might be dependent on your type.
Ah, see above.
Yes! Perhaps, I am biased. But if stories are not coherent psychologically their are not coherent at all. To me, that is the ability to write real characters. Perhaps, the psychological layer is the one that cannot be bent like the natural laws of the world or its history. Anything can be fiction exept the psychological laws.
Yes. And I agree with your reasoning. However, I concentrate on story. So, I pretty much ignore the medium since I like to see pattern. But: We as humans are hypervisual. So, I like to use imagery as the backbone. Another but: If we see Saturn Devouring His Son is it actually visual or visceral? I think the later.
Mh. I am not so sure about that. To me, it is a book that looks through story at the psyche. But whenever you do that, you are accessing the self-similarity of the world and therefore transcend those domains.
My current position is that the monomyth (the hero's journey to be specific) is actually a model of completeness that connects the ego, its death and the self. So, if one writes a book using the hero's journey as a template one is bound to write about this topic.
Mh. It is hard to tell. I try to create something similar like Joseph Campbell but instead of coming up with a self-contained or perhaps complete model of something I'd like to map out the landscape of symbolic meaning. If words and their meaning is something like assembler I'd like to come up with a higher language to speak in a more complex way about stories.
You are absolutely correct. But I am writing stories and text fragments since the age of 8.
So, I am already following your advice. (Albeit: It is not deliberate practice since I don't seek feedback frequently. But I will get there.)
I think that the Journey is dead is part of the death of the modern man (women included this time).
Novel is to film whatever meat + salat is to a proteinshake. It is pre-digested.
Novel is a representation of the linear narration of one speaker (you can also listen to it withough changing what I said before)
I am a Zettler