@daviddelven said:
I've had a related workflow-based concern, which I want to share with you in this thread about atomicity I had with Bob Doto.
Thank you for sharing. For me it’s a good overview to understand your process. What is new to me:
Reference Note = Highlights from Source
Literature Note = Own words summary of Literature Note
I only use Literature Notes. They have a Title, are created with a Template and have a Link to the source. No other mandatory rules. When I re-write the idea of the Literature Note with my own words, add at least a tag and a link to other Permanent Notes, I move them from my Literature Notes folder to my Permanent Notes folder. The Literature Note is no longer existent.
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
Thanks for your feedback.
Could you clarify what's is your meaning of "the idea"? I think this is the misunderstanding among many of the discussions I always read regarding this topic.
The reason my workflow has the "reference note = highlights from source" is the systems involved within the capturing. I use Readwise hub (it could be matter or whatever other web clipper or API-based input). That creates a block (note, page... whatever). It could be named already "Literature Note", but for me, there is an additional need (with most of the references/sources) to summarize or paraphrase using my own words what I've understood from those sources. This is nothing to do with "my ideas". My words are not necessarily my ideas in that particular scenario.
My TfT system, like many others, allows me to keep the URLs, internal block references, and backlinks, anywhere I need. So the concept of "deleting" is not necessary in my case.
This is the end of the Capture and understanding phase, for me.
From there, the Creative phase starts. Here I'll start with my "ideas".
I start creating a Hub Note (cluster...?), a concept-oriented umbrella note that will become the frame of the upcoming Atomic Notes (zettels...?). As the TfT digital system enables maximum traceability, the links to the sources (Lit Notes) are always on those Atomic Notes, therefore nested also the Reference Notes with the link to the Web document, Physical Book source, etc...).
@ Edmund, I get what you are illustrating. Sometimes the workflow might be described in how you've laid it out.
But there is something about this that misses the target for me.
Maybe it is because the focus is on the inputs, not the outcome.
Maybe it is the focus on "one idea," which works sometimes, but in a literature review seminar, all the ideas from a text are placed in a single note, and that note might go 2000 words, no problem, thanks to digital technology. Hard to do on an A6 card.
Maybe your illustration gives the impression that there are a bunch of different notes rather than a single note that starts as a template and then transitions and morphs to the first draft, second draft, third draft, and onwards to ad infimum.
Maybe it is because of the missing links to the main body of the ZK, which are the most important.
Maybe it is because I've experienced several other use cases with book reading. I'm specifically thing about the "Idea Index" Workflow. You are illustrating book capture and not interviewing, aren't you?
Maybe it is just me and my quirkiness.
Will Simpson
I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time. kestrelcreek.com
But there is something about this that misses the target for me.
Maybe it is because the focus is on the inputs, not the outcome.
Yes, it is only a small part of the workflow I've shown in the sketchnote.
Maybe it is the focus on "one idea," which works sometimes, but in a literature review seminar, all the ideas from a text are placed in a single note, and that note might go 2000 words, no problem, thanks to digital technology. Hard to do on an A6 card.
In my Zettelkasten I have Permanent Notes with "one idea" only. My Project Notes to produce output from Zettelkasten can be larger, more like your notes from your "literature review seminar". But 500 words is my upper limit.
Maybe your illustration gives the impression that there are a bunch of different notes rather than a single note that starts as a template and then transitions and morphs to the first draft, second draft, third draft, and onwards to ad infimum.
I'm using different types of notes. They are tagged differently (#type/note, #type/sketchnote, #type/term, #type/question etc.) and created from different templates. But they all will become Permanent Notes within my workflow.
Maybe it is because of the missing links to the main body of the ZK, which are the most important.
My Literature Notes are starting with one link only, a link to their sources. When they evolve to Permanent Notes within the workflow, they will be linked to other Permanent Notes.
Maybe it is because I've experienced several other use cases with book reading. I'm specifically thing about the "Idea Index" Workflow. You are illustrating book capture and not interviewing, aren't you?
Yes, in the sketchnote it is all about book capture. And my preferred non-fiction literature. For an "Idea Index" I use Structure Notes. They consist of several links to Permanent Notes with "one idea" only.
Maybe it is just me and my quirkiness.
I'm happy to see your special views on working with Zettelkasten. Every "brain" needs a perfectly addapted "second brain". Thank you for sharing your insights.
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
The Zettelkasten Metro Map [1] [2] is a system of symbols, colors, icons, architectural challenges, cooperative spaces, and crowds of Zettelkasten city residents. Together, they’ve formed an increasingly vital way of understanding the city as a whole.
The city is divided into metro stations, and for those of us who use public transportation, it’s a shared experience.
The Zettelkasten metro system makes the entire city more accessible. You can find out more about the individual metro lines below:
Values Line (blue)
Principles Line (red)
Notes Line (green)
The Zettelkasten metro is the pride of the city. It is always changing, thriving, growing and evolving into something new.
References
[1] Ahrens, Sönke. How to Take Smart Notes: One Simple Technique to Boost Writing, Learning and Thinking, 2022.
[2] “Tennessine. A Collection of Projects for the Web.” Accessed October 18, 2023. https://tennessine.co.uk/.
Post edited by Edmund on
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
In the shimmering ether of thought, there lies a city both palpable and elusive, known to some as "Zettelkasten." This city is a curious mirage woven into the tapestry of the Invisible Cities, a realm where knowledge finds its resplendent sanctuary.
Zettelkasten, the City of Notecards, emerges from the very fabric of the human intellect, manifesting not as bricks and mortar but as a mosaic of meticulously arranged cards, each card a fragment of insight, a sliver of wisdom, a whisper of the eternal quest for understanding. These cards, like enchanted hieroglyphs, are adorned with words, snippets, and musings, poised to transport you to realms of thought previously uncharted.
Navigating the ethereal streets of Zettelkasten, you become a pilgrim of knowledge, wandering through endless shelves and cabinets that stretch to infinity. The city unfolds its labyrinthine alleyways where citations, references, and footnotes serenade the wandering minds. In Zettelkasten, you are invited to partake in the grand dance of ideas, an intricate waltz where disciplines commingle and spark intellectual alchemy.
This city, forever in flux, knows no bounds; it expands and contracts with the boundless curiosity of its inhabitants, who diligently populate it with new cards, creating an ever-evolving cosmos of thought. Here, you'll find scientists, philosophers, writers, and artists – thinkers of all ilk – engaged in a ceaseless dialogue with the universe's secrets.
In Zettelkasten, as the boundaries between concepts blur, so too do the boundaries between past, present, and future. Here, the wisdom of ages past converges with the innovation of ages yet to come, intertwining like lovers destined to meet across the corridors of eternity. It's a place where time dances to its own rhythm, and history and prophecy become inseparable.
The city of Zettelkasten embodies the resplendence of the human mind's boundless pursuit of understanding. It is the quintessential testament to the power of organization, connection, and the eternal hunger for knowledge. In the realm of the Invisible Cities, Zettelkasten beckons you to journey into the very heart of the human intellect, where thoughts are the bricks, and curiosity is the mortar, constructing a city as eternal as the quest for understanding itself.
This reminds me of …
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
I’ve just finished reading the amazing book from Sönke Ahrens about “How to take Smart Notes”(1). As a visual thinker and sketchnoter my first idea was to use this method to combine visual thinking with networked thinking. Taking smart notes is great, but taking smart sketchnotes would be even greater.
To summarize the content of a book like this within one sketchnote is not that easy. So I started to summarize one main aspect witch is important for a reader of Ahrens’ book to work with the Zettelkasten method. It’s the major workflow starting with filling the inbox till using the content of the growing slip-box to produce an output of higher value. I added the tools I’m using in this process and also the page numbers from the book as a reference for further reading and understanding the underlying method.
You are also working with Obsidian and Zettelkasten? Do you see any differences between your own and the workflow described by Sönke Ahrens?
—-
(1) Ahrens, Sönke. How to Take Smart Notes: One Simple Technique to Boost Writing, Learning and Thinking, 2022.
My "workflow", based on Apple Shortcut, Apple Note and DevonThink 3
My "workflow", based on Apple Shortcut, Apple Note and DevonThink 3
Oh yes, that's a clear structure! Can you tell a bit more about your workflows within Apple Notes and DevonThink? When to you use Apple Notes and when do you prefer DevonThink?
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
My "workflow", based on Apple Shortcut, Apple Note and DevonThink 3
Oh yes, that's a clear structure! Can you tell a bit more about your workflows within Apple Notes and DevonThink? When to you use Apple Notes and when do you prefer DevonThink?
Hi, Edmund, I will explain it to you.
1. I don't generate a lot of separate "fleeting notes" file every day. Instead, I use Apple Shortcut to generate a formatted Apple Notes daily note (a single note contains weather, calendar, entry to Things3 Today, and any notes/excerpts/clippers during the day)
2. I also set up an Shortcut to add my note to this "daily note"
3. At night, I review my "daily note" note, and decide if I need to create a note from each note item on the list. If so, I use a time-based UID and name together as the title for the new note file.
4. DevonThink to me is more for file management, I do have custom field called "Note", where I write down anything that directly related to the file. But since I have other custom metadata field, I rarely use this "note" field.
Comments
Thank you for sharing. For me it’s a good overview to understand your process. What is new to me:
I only use Literature Notes. They have a Title, are created with a Template and have a Link to the source. No other mandatory rules. When I re-write the idea of the Literature Note with my own words, add at least a tag and a link to other Permanent Notes, I move them from my Literature Notes folder to my Permanent Notes folder. The Literature Note is no longer existent.
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
Hello, Edmund.
Thanks for your feedback.
Could you clarify what's is your meaning of "the idea"? I think this is the misunderstanding among many of the discussions I always read regarding this topic.
The reason my workflow has the "reference note = highlights from source" is the systems involved within the capturing. I use Readwise hub (it could be matter or whatever other web clipper or API-based input). That creates a block (note, page... whatever). It could be named already "Literature Note", but for me, there is an additional need (with most of the references/sources) to summarize or paraphrase using my own words what I've understood from those sources. This is nothing to do with "my ideas". My words are not necessarily my ideas in that particular scenario.
My TfT system, like many others, allows me to keep the URLs, internal block references, and backlinks, anywhere I need. So the concept of "deleting" is not necessary in my case.
This is the end of the Capture and understanding phase, for me.
From there, the Creative phase starts. Here I'll start with my "ideas".
I start creating a Hub Note (cluster...?), a concept-oriented umbrella note that will become the frame of the upcoming Atomic Notes (zettels...?). As the TfT digital system enables maximum traceability, the links to the sources (Lit Notes) are always on those Atomic Notes, therefore nested also the Reference Notes with the link to the Web document, Physical Book source, etc...).
David Delgado Vendrell
www.daviddelgado.cat
My process for Literature Notes is reduced to 5 steps only:
Do see any steps for improvement?
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
yours mapped to mine:
mine = @Edmund
reference note = bibliographical note
literature note = literature note
atomic note = permanent note
hub note = structure note / permanent note
David Delgado Vendrell
www.daviddelgado.cat
@ Edmund, I get what you are illustrating. Sometimes the workflow might be described in how you've laid it out.
But there is something about this that misses the target for me.
Will Simpson
I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
Yes, it is only a small part of the workflow I've shown in the sketchnote.
In my Zettelkasten I have Permanent Notes with "one idea" only. My Project Notes to produce output from Zettelkasten can be larger, more like your notes from your "literature review seminar". But 500 words is my upper limit.
I'm using different types of notes. They are tagged differently (#type/note, #type/sketchnote, #type/term, #type/question etc.) and created from different templates. But they all will become Permanent Notes within my workflow.
My Literature Notes are starting with one link only, a link to their sources. When they evolve to Permanent Notes within the workflow, they will be linked to other Permanent Notes.
Yes, in the sketchnote it is all about book capture. And my preferred non-fiction literature. For an "Idea Index" I use Structure Notes. They consist of several links to Permanent Notes with "one idea" only.
I'm happy to see your special views on working with Zettelkasten. Every "brain" needs a perfectly addapted "second brain". Thank you for sharing your insights.
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
The Zettelkasten Metro Map [1] [2] is a system of symbols, colors, icons, architectural challenges, cooperative spaces, and crowds of Zettelkasten city residents. Together, they’ve formed an increasingly vital way of understanding the city as a whole.
The city is divided into metro stations, and for those of us who use public transportation, it’s a shared experience.
The Zettelkasten metro system makes the entire city more accessible. You can find out more about the individual metro lines below:
The Zettelkasten metro is the pride of the city. It is always changing, thriving, growing and evolving into something new.
References
[1] Ahrens, Sönke. How to Take Smart Notes: One Simple Technique to Boost Writing, Learning and Thinking, 2022.
[2] “Tennessine. A Collection of Projects for the Web.” Accessed October 18, 2023. https://tennessine.co.uk/.
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
@Edmund This reminds me of the Invisible Cities of Italo Calvino.
GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein.
Thank you for this source of insights.
From: https://barnsworthburning.net/creators/italo-calvino/invisible-cities
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
In the shimmering ether of thought, there lies a city both palpable and elusive, known to some as "Zettelkasten." This city is a curious mirage woven into the tapestry of the Invisible Cities, a realm where knowledge finds its resplendent sanctuary.
Zettelkasten, the City of Notecards, emerges from the very fabric of the human intellect, manifesting not as bricks and mortar but as a mosaic of meticulously arranged cards, each card a fragment of insight, a sliver of wisdom, a whisper of the eternal quest for understanding. These cards, like enchanted hieroglyphs, are adorned with words, snippets, and musings, poised to transport you to realms of thought previously uncharted.
Navigating the ethereal streets of Zettelkasten, you become a pilgrim of knowledge, wandering through endless shelves and cabinets that stretch to infinity. The city unfolds its labyrinthine alleyways where citations, references, and footnotes serenade the wandering minds. In Zettelkasten, you are invited to partake in the grand dance of ideas, an intricate waltz where disciplines commingle and spark intellectual alchemy.
This city, forever in flux, knows no bounds; it expands and contracts with the boundless curiosity of its inhabitants, who diligently populate it with new cards, creating an ever-evolving cosmos of thought. Here, you'll find scientists, philosophers, writers, and artists – thinkers of all ilk – engaged in a ceaseless dialogue with the universe's secrets.
In Zettelkasten, as the boundaries between concepts blur, so too do the boundaries between past, present, and future. Here, the wisdom of ages past converges with the innovation of ages yet to come, intertwining like lovers destined to meet across the corridors of eternity. It's a place where time dances to its own rhythm, and history and prophecy become inseparable.
The city of Zettelkasten embodies the resplendence of the human mind's boundless pursuit of understanding. It is the quintessential testament to the power of organization, connection, and the eternal hunger for knowledge. In the realm of the Invisible Cities, Zettelkasten beckons you to journey into the very heart of the human intellect, where thoughts are the bricks, and curiosity is the mortar, constructing a city as eternal as the quest for understanding itself.
This reminds me of …
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
My "workflow", based on Apple Shortcut, Apple Note and DevonThink 3
@Jackhansonc said:
Oh yes, that's a clear structure! Can you tell a bit more about your workflows within Apple Notes and DevonThink? When to you use Apple Notes and when do you prefer DevonThink?
Edmund Gröpl
Writing is your voice. Make it easy to listen.
Hi, Edmund, I will explain it to you.
1. I don't generate a lot of separate "fleeting notes" file every day. Instead, I use Apple Shortcut to generate a formatted Apple Notes daily note (a single note contains weather, calendar, entry to Things3 Today, and any notes/excerpts/clippers during the day)
2. I also set up an Shortcut to add my note to this "daily note"
3. At night, I review my "daily note" note, and decide if I need to create a note from each note item on the list. If so, I use a time-based UID and name together as the title for the new note file.
4. DevonThink to me is more for file management, I do have custom field called "Note", where I write down anything that directly related to the file. But since I have other custom metadata field, I rarely use this "note" field.