# [Zettel Feedback] Dogs are reactive to strong personas

edited January 27

# 202201260740 Dogs are reactive to strong personas

In my experience, dogs respond when people have built a strong persona. It is no different with us humans. People who have a strong persona come across to us as dishonest, insincere, insecure and/or generally untrustworthy.

However, we humans have a special tolerance for people with strong personas because we usually have a personas ourselves. In a sense, we humans play a kind of social poker game and are familiar with the rules. We are, in a sense, talented and skilled at interacting with untrustworthy people. We have the security of being practiced.

Dogs, on the other hand, have no persona. The difference between a publicly displayed mask (persona) and a self hidden behind it is not understandable by them. What they do see, however, is a contradictory and untrustworthy person. This does not mean that this person is evil. A person who is insecure and has learned to cover up his insecurity arouses the distrust of dogs just like the false fuff.

The dog's behavior, of course, depends on its dispositions. Some suspicious dogs keep their distance. Other dogs seek contact and try to resolve in their own way what seems contradictory to them (the suspicious person): playing, defensive barking, scuffling at, approaching cautiously and skittishly, and so on.

This is my interpretation of the fact that dogs react unusually well to me. As a human, I tick off often because I don't have much persona. Some people like that ("With Sascha you always know where you stand."), other people, who put a lot of emphasis on their persona, don't like that (no judgement! Shyness or insecurity are not crimes). But dogs react unusually positively to me. My dog also thawed out quickly towards me, even though she is extremely distrustful.

My cousin is also a person who just is who she is. On top of that, she is a calm and sweet person. With no one but me, my dog thawed out faster.

Outside there are only two people who can touch Lëini: Both are older men, who are quiet, nice men, but above all are just the way they are. She is less afraid of women, as is typical for a rescue dog, but even here she tends to show ignorance and no trusting behavior with any woman (so far). Towards a middle-aged man, she's fine and has never shown any suspicious behavior. One would not suspect it because he is loud and coarse blockhead. But he is just honest, direct without any mask.

This is a raw note that I wrote this morning. Please critique my note.

Post edited by Sascha on

I am a Zettler

• Thanks for sharing. I'll take a stab at a friendly critique.

This is a sweet story about you and Lëini. Lëini's behavior is the result of her upbringing as is mine. Sounds like Lëini has found a cascade of love in Sascha.

How might this note be related to the rest of your ZK?
The first three paragraphs at testable. Are there studies confirming you experience?
The send three paragraphs seem antidotal.
It be interesting to hear you thinking about the tag #self?

Will Simpson
“Read Poetry, Listen to Good Music, and Get Exercise”
kestrelcreek.com

• The note is an interesting read on its own. Since it's a note and not a post, though, I expected many links in the first two paragraphs:

In my experience, dogs respond when people have built a strong persona. It is no different with us humans. People who have a strong persona come across to us as dishonest, insincere, insecure and/or generally untrustworthy.

However, we humans have a special tolerance for people with strong personas because we usually have a personas ourselves. In a sense, we humans play a kind of social poker game and are familiar with the rules. We are, in a sense, talented and skilled at interacting with untrustworthy people. We have the security of being practiced.

Did you strip them? Cause I bet you got something on "persona" etc I guess that's what @Will hints at with 'testable,' too.

Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/

• edited January 29

@Will said:
Thanks for sharing. I'll take a stab at a friendly critique.

This is a sweet story about you and Lëini. Lëini's behavior is the result of her upbringing as is mine. Sounds like Lëini has found a cascade of love in Sascha.

If it was only a story of love.. But it is also a story of betrayal and strain. The rescue organisation veiled her plethora of issues (betrayel since the representant disguised himself as a friend) and her rehabilitation + training (still ongoing) was pretty hard. Not only is she feisty and stubborn. She likes to pick on the weak (which I detest), to eat scat (multiple loads of truckers who park their vehikels near our one of our rounds.. trucker loads), is exeptionally stubborn and has a Type A personality like a working line German Shepard. I was all positive in my training approach before her and I quickly realised that she needed way more and harsh corrections to straighten out. (I don't like the authority part of dog training)

So, yes. I love her (she was the reason why I raised my voice against someone for the first time since I moved out of my parents home). But she is a hard to love nut bag.

How might this note be related to the rest of your ZK?

This note is referenced in:

• 201912020750 Owning a dog and self-development
• 201907141248 Ü2 Human-Dog-Relationship
• 201612311044 Ü2 Social Roles und Personal Identity
• 202003280733 Ü2 Dog Psychology (under section "comparative psychology")
• 201710281004 Ü2 Jungian Psychology (under section "persona")

There is no need for outgoing links, yet. The first four paragraphs roughly describe the claim (see my later response), the first three just the model and the fourth is an illustration (with a hidden claim).

Then it is followed by three anektodal reports of myself which is barely any evidence which is fine for this section of my Zettelkasten for now.

So, I don't need any further support from other notes since this note seems long but the structure is fairly simple: Claim and some anekdotes to support it.

The first three paragraphs at testable. Are there studies confirming you experience?

I don't know yet. This could be one of the further steps. My ambition to found this area of my Zettelkasten with evidence is fairly low because of two reasons: Most research in this area I read is poorly designed and the topic is so obscure (Jungian Philosophy of Dogs?) that my first step is to write some people who actually work with dogs and ask them if they share my opinion since arguments from authority is the best we have at this moment in time. (Experience filtered through practicioners which I respect as authorities)

It be interesting to hear you thinking about the tag #self?

I placed this tag because the self is implicit in this writing. I anticipate using this note to develop a section of a hobby project which is concerned with how the relationship to a dog imposes the need to identify with the higher self (as opposed to the ego) to solve certain dog related issues. I have several concepts that are still blurry: Self (capital S), Higher Self, Atman, Soul, etc. In German "Selbst" has a more general meaning and we don't commonly distinguish between "ego" and "self" by having different words which happens in my perception in English more naturally. So, my tag is broader than it looks from the direct translation.

The paragraphs beginn with comments. So the text looks like:*

!-- Dogs react to true identity and identity conflicts, we too --> In my experience, dogs respond when people have built a strong persona. It is no different with us humans. People who have a strong persona come across to us as dishonest, insincere, insecure and/or generally untrustworthy.

!-- Humans like this --> However, we humans have a special tolerance for people with strong personas because we usually have a personas ourselves. In a sense, we humans play a kind of social poker game and are familiar with the rules. We are, in a sense, talented and skilled at interacting with untrustworthy people. We have the security of being practiced.

!-- Dogs like this --> Dogs, on the other hand, have no persona. The difference between a publicly displayed mask (persona) and a self hidden behind it is not understandable by them. What they do see, however, is a contradictory and untrustworthy person. This does not mean that this person is evil. A person who is insecure and has learned to cover up his insecurity arouses the distrust of dogs just like the false fuff.

!-- Phenomenology --> The dog's behavior, of course, depends on its dispositions. Some suspicious dogs keep their distance. Other dogs seek contact and try to resolve in their own way what seems contradictory to them (the suspicious person): playing, defensive barking, scuffling at, approaching cautiously and skittishly, and so on.

!--W Anecdote --> This is my interpretation of the fact that dogs react unusually well to me. As a human, I tick off often because I don't have much persona. Some people like that ("With Sascha you always know where you stand."), other people, who put a lot of emphasis on their persona, don't like that (no judgement! Shyness or insecurity are not crimes). But dogs react unusually positively to me. My dog also thawed out quickly towards me, even though she is extremely distrustful.

!--W Anecdote --> My cousin is also a person who just is who she is. On top of that, she is a calm and sweet person. With no one but me, my dog thawed out faster.

!--W Anecdote --> Outside there are only two people who can touch Lëini: Both are older men, who are quiet, nice men, but above all are just the way they are. She is less afraid of women, as is typical for a rescue dog, but even here she tends to show ignorance and no trusting behavior with any woman (so far). Towards a middle-aged man, she's fine and has never shown any suspicious behavior. One would not suspect it because he is loud and coarse blockhead. But he is just honest, direct without any mask.

"!--W -->" means the paragraph concerns itself with the truth of the claim (here: anecdotal-empirical).

• I removed the "<" to trick the forumssoftware
Post edited by Sascha on

I am a Zettler