Hard to think while looking at the screen
In my experience, looking at a monitor made it difficult for me to connect ideas. Instead, walking helped me integrate ideas and spark new ones.
After using the (Digital) Zettelkasten for about three years, I realized that when I looked at the monitor and tried to structure my existing ideas, my mind would become dizzy and I couldn't think straight. Then, when I simply turned off the computer and sat there blankly, looking at the scenery, or taking a walk, the ideas I'd written in Zettelkasten would naturally come to mind and come together.
From my observations, I found that the brighter the monitor, the more difficult it was for me to think. The darker the monitor, the better my thinking. There were also times when I was able to think effectively while typing. In those instances, my eyes were on the monitor, but my mind seemed to be in some space inside my head. It's as if I'm looking into some inner space.
I want to be able to generate, integrate, and connect ideas in the Zettelkasten, just like when I'm walking or without a digital screen, but I feel like something's not working. Has anyone found a solution to this?
P.S. I looked it up and found the concepts of divergent thinking and convergent thinking, but I'm not sure if they're relevant to the problem I'm facing.
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That's normal exhaustion. The brain can only focus for some time before it needs a rest.
That's normal rest. Your brain switches to a different mode. It activates the default mode network. Your examples are very common. Staring blankly with a soft gaze and doing nothing. Looking at nature or being in nature. Walking.
I enjoyed reading Joseph Jebelli's The brain at rest (2025) as an overview of the psychology of doing nothing.
That reminds me of the legendary flow state. But it could also be your exhausted brain switching to default mode by ignoring what's going on outside your head. It requires some practice to tell them apart.
There's also the question what you mean by effective. Effective in producing notes? Or effective in learning a skill? These are two very different goals.
Short answer: you can't.
There's a simple solution. Take breaks. A classic method is Francesco Cirillo's Pomodoro Technique. 25 minutes focused thinking, then 5 minutes doing something very different or nothing at all.
The (simplified) psychology is that you have two modes of thinking. You can't mix them. Your brain is either in one mode or the other. You need both modes, if you want to learn effectively.
Some people can stay focused for a long time because they are in flow state. But they still need a break to let the other part of their brain do its part. Some people are in a state of hyperfocus, where they find it difficult to leave flow and take a break, even if their brain needs it.
Another aspect are questions like: how do you work with Zettelkasten, what do you actually mean by Zettelkasten and why do you want to use a Zettelkasten at all. For example if I wanted to learn undergraduate math, I wouldn't use Zettelkasten. I'd learn about learning techniques. What works in general? What works in particular for math?
Those terms describe something else, but they are related to what you're looking for.
For starters I recommend the book Learning how to learn (2018) by Barbara Oakley and Terrence Sejnowski. They distinguish between focused mode and diffuse mode. Soundbites from the book:
The book is an easy read, because it's written for high school students and their parents. If you need more detail you could also get Oakley's A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel at Math and Science (2014).
There are many other books out there that explain evidence based learning techniques and the psychology of learning. Oakley is a good introduction to foundational concepts like those two modes of thinking.
Regarding screen brightness, have you tried using dark mode in your apps, or in your settings in general?
Here's my Obsidian app:
I originally got into dark mode because of eye strain, but I found my general concentration and productivity to be way better.
Also, taking mini-breaks helps. I often get up from my desk to just 'meander' and think for a couple of minutes, and that helps me to have perspective on whatever I was working on. It doesn't have to be a full walk somewhere.
This is somewhat different approach to what you described above, but have you tried different kinds of monitors? When I became ill with an autoimmune disease I started to notice that most of the LED screens made my brain feel dizzy, sometimes even completely blocking ability to form meaningful thoughts. Dimming the brightness helped a little but the real relief came from finding the right monitor - which in my case is Macbook's screen. In some way, either the frequency of the light it produces or its refresh rate differs from other types of screens.
While we are covering health and ergonomic issues: some people get tired, because they don't wear the right prescription glasses. 👓
Yes - this is true for me. I have a special set of glasses whose prescription exactly matches what I need for the distance between my eyes and my monitor. But adjusting the brightness also helps.
Have you tried using paper as any part of the process? If not to replace the whole Zettelkasten, which I realise would be a pretty big change, then maybe for taking notes in a paper notebook as you're rummaging through the computerized Zettelkasten?
Thank you for your feedback.
Currently, I complete about 80% of my thoughts outside of the Zettelkasten (when I'm not looking at the screen), then bring them back into the Zettelkasten and work on the remaining 20%. So, essentially, the generation of new ideas happens outside of the Zettelkasten. This even applies to synthesizing ideas or getting ideas for structure notes. While I certainly generate, synthesize, and connect ideas within the Zettelkasten, I don't do it as well as when I'm not looking at the screen. Is this just how it is, or am I missing something?
I also learn through Zettelkasten, but what I'm talking about this time is creating new ideas based on existing knowledge.
Plus, thank you for your explanation of learning. I'm currently studying math and science, and I've added the Oakley materials you provided to my reading list. By the way, is the reason you avoid using Zettelkasten when learning math because it's not suited to math?
Yes! I recently experienced dark mode myself. I originally avoided it because of my eyesight, but after trying it out, I noticed that it helped me focus better.
I've tried Zettelkasten on several laptops and haven't had any issues with the panels so far (Acer A111-31 TN Pannel to macbook Air M2). Thanks for the feedback though.
Can you give a concrete example?
One problem with "Zettelkasten" is, that some Zettelkasten teachers oversell their method. They use big words like "ideas" and "knowledge". But a Zettelkasten is not a miracle box, no matter how clever your organization. It's a tool.
Maybe you're expecting too much?
Another problem with "Zettelkasten" is, that they exist in many flavors. I don't see how a Luhmannian or Ahrensian or Fastian Zettelkasten would help with learning math. Maybe someone else has figured it out?
I choose my tools by their usefulness. Do they help solve the problems, that I want to solve?
My main argument is that learning math is not about collecting "knowledge" in a box, but about learning a skill. The book Make it stick defines learning (emphasis added):
That is not the goal of the Zettelkasten flavors I'm familiar with. But there might be others.
I was researching the relationship between theory and application in learning. Subtopics within this area of interest included language learning, effective teaching methods, why learning doesn't lead to technical mastery, immersion, and play. At the time, I was teaching music: instrumental performance, how to identify sounds in multitracks, and music theory. Based on my years of teaching experience and the knowledge I'd read in books and other materials, I tried to create a model that synthesized what makes learning difficult, what makes learning effective, and what makes learning fun. I aimed to use this model to develop a curriculum for improving instrumental skills or a new teaching method for sound discrimination training. However, after gathering information and ideas on Zettelkasten over a long period of time, I needed to integrate them, but I couldn't think straight when I was looking at the screen. Then, I took an hour-long walk during lunch or after work, and it was during that time that I began to develop ideas that could integrate my existing knowledge into a new model. So, in fact, the groundwork for the idea (in this case the model) was all thought out while walking, and the Zettelkasten was done for the detailed work after the model was almost finished.
I'm currently trying to create a latticework of mental models using various models. My approach is to research each model and connect them in structure notes to create a system. You might think that structuring a model isn't the same as generating ideas. However, for me, creating new structures is also a way to generate usable ideas, which is why I called it idea generation. When I looked at the screen and tried to connect the models, I had trouble thinking clearly. Similarly, although it wasn't idea generation, I tried to write structure notes to organize notes I'd previously studied or researched, but I found it difficult to structure the structure while looking at the screen. On the other hand, when I walked around, I often recalled the notes I'd written in my Zettelkasten, and they came together naturally. This is because I remember most of the notes I wrote.
I read @Sascha's Thinking Environment article, and it made me wonder if I could do all of this within the Zettelkasten. While it's important to balance breaks, I felt like I was working outside of the Zettelkasten, so I was curious about this.
I agree that math is a skill.
Structuring a model is also part of my creative process. It uses the focused mode of thinking.
Maybe because that requires a different mode of thinking?
We haven't talked yet about the content of your screen. What software do you use? What flavor of Zettelkasten do you use? If you use Sascha's flavor of the Zettelkasten method, how closely do you follow his advice?
As said before, this is perfectly normal. Your brain switches to another mode. It makes the connections in the background, processing all the information available in your memory.
Writing notes can serve multiple purposes. Notes as "extended memory" let you look up stuff, that you have forgotten or misremembered. The process of writing notes can help understand and learn stuff.
Maybe you just need to switch more frequently? @wjenkins81 mentioned "mini-breaks".
My advice for this kind of question is simple: try it out. If integration works for you, integrate. If keeping stuff separate works for you, keep it separate.
FWIW Sascha himself works outside Zettelkasten. In this article he mentions a "feeder system". The article also has a nice chart:
It may be worth mentioning that reading comprehension tends to be better with analog media than with digital media (e.g., https://doi.org/10.1016/j.edurev.2018.09.003). We’ve long known that we learn material more effectively when it comes with some contextual cues, and the physicality of analog media like books seems to provide that in abundance—whereas digital media often don’t. We simply haven’t (and perhaps never will) fully adapted to reading from a computer screen. This could well be contributing to your difficulty thinking clearly while looking at a screen.
Good point.
Writing on paper also has advantages. It slows you down. It's easier and more fun to doodle. You can shuffle those paper notes around, lay them out on a table or the floor. You can pin/stick them to the wall.
There's a reason why so many creatives have a whiteboard and/or flip chart in their office. Some kind of thinking is so much easier when you can move around and can write/draw on big surfaces.
@iylock Are you writing in Kanji?
I am a Zettler
I'm trying to follow along as best as I can, within my understanding. And I use Gnome-text editor and Files on Fedora Linux.
As far as I know, Sascha does this while looking at a computer screen. For me, outside the Zettelkasten is the real world.
That's right. Now that I think about it, there are so many variables to consider that I think solving this problem will require observation and experimentation on my own. As you and @wjenkins81 suggested, taking frequent "mini-breaks" might be the most effective approach. Thank you for your help.
Maybe so.
No. I only use Hanja when analyzing Korean words or the thought processes embedded within them. Of course, when dealing with Japanese materials, Kanji is sometimes mixed. There's The Art of War on my list for later review, and while I'll likely transcribe the original text in Hanja, I'll likely write my notes in Korean.
Apologies for the confusion.
I think the fact that you are using Hanja is of major importance. You'll have much more dense information and way more delicate strokes compared to the West.
This is very much how I feel when I enter a deeper focus. In many instances, I wouldn't even look at the screen, when I write. It is typical for me to write and look up or to the side for 2-4 seconds. I don't know if this helps you, but I verbalise when I type. So, my fingers often just follow my inner voice (I write roughly 100 words per minute. So, I can type the speed of a slow speaker).
The ideas that I have to at least improve your screen ergonomics:
Set colours to a creamy paper look.
This is what I use currently:
Likely, I will increase the cream-factor (more beige, a bit darker)
This is my Obsidian:
As big fonts as possible.
I will make the font as big as possible, until it feels weird.
I'd also experiment with different fonts, but I can't tell you anything useful about Hanja.
Remove all visual clutter.
The Archive is built for speed and minimal visual clutter (the next visual update will reduce UI complexity even more) for the very specific reason that it is straining to have too many visual elements on your screen.
The screenshot that you shared, for example, would be way too much visual clutter for me.
I am a Zettler
Looks like a very manual workflow. I'm getting tired just by imagining to work like this. :-)
Have you tried tools like Obsidian or Logseq? They get much of the tedious manual work out of the way, so that you can interact with your notes on a higher level. (Both run on Linux.)
Reading this brought back memories. There was a time when I had no trouble generating ideas while looking at a screen, and I used to write my thoughts out loud. I think this might be helpful to me.
Your The Archive font doesn't look as large as Obsidian. Is there a reason?
And I hadn't thought about this part since the last change, but I'll have to consider changing the font size and type again.
I realized that visual elements were distracting and I was looking for an app that was as minimalistic as possible. The Archive is great, but I don't like my MacBook, so I've been looking for alternatives. (I don't like the keyboard shortcuts on macOS, the SSD isn't removable, and it's too expensive to buy if it breaks.
)
Below is my workflow, following the links, and I've rarely experienced any inconvenience with the visual elements or the app itself. I feel like there's no difference other than the Files app replacing The Archive's sidepanel functionality.
I used Obsidian in the early days of Digital Zettelkasten, but the UI was distracting, Obsidian's Markdown didn't appeal to me, I found myself preferring link-as-search feature, Valut was slow to load, and so on. So, I've been looking for software that's as simple as possible. After migrating from Obsidian, I wanted to maintain a software-independent approach.
Thanks to you guys, I have quite a few things to try: mini-breaks, verbalising, changing colors, font and its size, etc. many thanks!
Yes. And the font (Lato) is more densely packed than in Obsidian (Avenir Next). There is one conscious reason and an unconscious reason that I suspect:
To me, there is a lot of movement on the screen and switching windows and context. The function can be similar, but the window flickering is what would distract me.
I am a Zettler