Zettelkasten Forum

Share with us what is happening in your ZK this week. July 5, 2024

Swimming with Ideas

This is yet another opportunity to share with your friends what you are working on. Add to this discussion by telling us about your zettelkasten journey. Share with us what you're learning. Sharing helps me and, hopefully, you, too. It helps us clarify our goals and visualize our thinking. And sometimes, a conversation sparks a magical moment where we can dive into an idea worth exploring. I'd love to hear more from you. 🫵🏼

Here is a report on why I'm here and this week's ZK work themes/ideas:

First, learning how to discuss an idea has been gratifying through the forum discussion Discourse graph and Zettelkasten. It's been a masterclass on capturing creative ideation. This reminds me of when Mortimer Adler argued that speed reading is flawed; true comprehension requires slowing down to match the material's depth. 1

Second, I've been working on two applications/scripts that work with my archive. One is a Python/Keyboard Maestro combo called "Idea Explorer." I've mentioned it before. It presents information about any note in a textual view, which makes it easier to parse what is happening than in a graph view. (First-level and second-level links, link weights, word count, mtime, tag map, and more.) The second one is called "Mentions." This gathers together in a sort of structure note where I've mentioned people in my archive. We've discussed an early version of this shell script on the forum. 2

In the example I've been working with this week, I focused on notes where I mentioned forum members.

Mentions of forum members in my zettelkasten
UUID:      ›[[202406281724]] 
cdate:     06-28-2024 17:24PM
tags:      #proofing #people #forum-post 
# Mentions in Zettelkasten

## Reference
- Track ZK.Forum Mentions
        - bear://x-callback-url/open-note?id=F7D821AB-A841-4B85-986C-6B9E7C90C37D

## @Andy        6 Mentions
[[202308201331]] A-Hierarchies — real and artificial 
[[202404040625]] How to improve thinking skills 
[[202401070759]] Outlining a 'Train of Thought' 
[[202406271756]] The Role of Question Types in Knowledge Structures 
[[202105301418]] Types Of Included-Excluded Information In Zettel 

## @Edmund       14 Mentions
[[202008291653]] Better Thinking 
[[202310240716]] City of Notes 
[[202311050910]] Empirical Process Control 
[[202110270759]] H-Drawing And Sketching 
[[202009160654]] H-Writing 
[[202402190733]] How can I improve my Zettelkasten? 
[[202303300802]] Knowledge Burger 
[[201901111005]] Personal Knowledge Management recipient 
[[202212311703]] Smart Sketchnoting 
[[202203181940]] The Act of Note Making 
[[202301311107]] Time Well Spent? 

## @GeoEng51        2 Mentions
[[202208081721]] Capture thoughts and feelings about ideas 
[[202212101433]] ZettelDistraction's memory 

## @JoshA        2 Mentions
[[202212122027]] F-Proximity Search Video Script 
[[202208190944]] Object Level and Meta Level Abstraction Distinction 

## @Loni        2 Mentions
[[202205011712]] Costasiella Kuroshimae 
[[202204282122]] Word Deep Dives 

## @Nick        6 Mentions
[[202205051425]] Comparing Spiders to Insects 
[[202003231432]] H-Zettelkasten 
[[202301080820]] Luhmann's Encouragement To Just Begin 
[[202103221435]] Projects Delayed Till After Class Ends 
[[202006240540]] S-The Archive 
[[202110110727]] Zettel Crafting Checklist 

## @Phil        4 Mentions
[[202003041443]] Connection Note 
[[202009141201]] Intellectual Craftsmanship 
[[202005191029]] Marking Used During Reading 
[[202105180855]] Portmanteau 

## @Sascha       13 Mentions
[[202406261439]] A Beginner Obstacle in Habit Building 
[[201901111704]] A-Elements of information in reading 
[[202201061649]] Attention as an economic resource 
[[202204091657]] Built environments shaped by human evolution 
[[202401070747]] Challenges to Integrated Thinking 
[[202210160719]] Creative Idea Compass 
[[202212190911]] Discontinuous development processes 
[[202201042008]] Extract Knowledge From Reading 
[[202308310843]] Individualism in knowledge work 
[[202204091738]] S-Architectural Traits Effect on Thinking 
[[202301031745]] Saving Quotations in the ZK 
[[202204091756]] The Restorative Nature of Windows 
[[202406261423]] The Trilemma Model of the Selves 

## @ZettelDistraction       19 Mentions
[[202402191606]] AI-Assisted Critiques of ZK Notes 
[[202310081359]] Deep Think Retreat 
[[202204301205]] Eufriction is Good Friction 
[[202110101626]] Folgezettel-Digital ID comparison 
[[202303300802]] Knowledge Burger 
[[202106040557]] Metaphors for Tool for Thought 
[[202404080625]] Note Template & Self Referential Documentation 
[[202403020516]] Portraying a Positive Persona Through Writing 
[[202110032117]] Pythagorean secret mantra for focus 
[[202003291526]] S-Writing Phrases 
[[202204301102]] Shipping Container as ZK metaphor 
[[202103300546]] Siren Song of Brain Prosthetics 
[[202402180542]] Weekly Deep Think Retreat Cycle 
[[202402250517]] Weekly Deep Think Retreat Cycle 
[[202301281203]] What physical steps? 
[[202212101433]] ZettelDistraction's memory 

## @andang76        2 Mentions
[[202406122032]] Alex Poslavsky Philosophizing about Zettelkasting 
[[202401070759]] Outlining a 'Train of Thought' 

## @argonsnorts        1 Mentions
[[202105050918]] How-to: Tie the title with the note's idea 

## @brennen        2 Mentions
[[202201181327]] What does a coder's ZK look like? 

## @bradfordfournier        3 Mentions
[[202106040557]] Metaphors for Tool for Thought 
[[202109281619]] Natural Local Structure 
[[202109291552]] S-Approaches To Note Taking 

## @chrisaldrich        4 Mentions
[[202302231705]] Bees making honey as a metaphor for reading 
[[202305050616]] Habitually reviewing notes yields rewards 
[[202301200531]] Using YAML key, value pairs on ZK dashboard 

## @ctietze       12 Mentions
[[202002110548]] A-Inline key-words and key-phrases 
[[202312060724]] Convert Wiki Links 
[[202211010547]] Happy 9th Anniversary to Zettelkasten.de 
[[202205020709]] History Of WAYWOW 
[[202205292014]] L-Reading Candidates 
[[202103250815]] Put The Best Idea Up Front 
[[202006280835]] Re-processing Notes 
[[202308281710]] Selecting the archive directory on startup 
[[202007030818]] Tedium 
[[202105090546]] Temp Output Path Code Block 
[[202201190820]] Zettelkasting Search 

## @davecan        2 Mentions
[[202105050918]] How-to: Tie the title with the note's idea 
[[202103170534]] T-March 17, 2021 

## @damaskin        1 Mentions
[[202008230728]] Spoke And Hub Linking 

## @emarsh        1 Mentions
[[202006280835]] Re-processing Notes 

## @fracturedlit        2 Mentions
[[202312011453]] Going There Writing Workshop 

## @henrikenggaard        3 Mentions
[[202104092124]] A-Structured Procrastination 
[[202205020709]] History Of WAYWOW 
[[202201181327]] What does a coder's ZK look like? 

## @matti        3 Mentions
[[202201181327]] What does a coder's ZK look like? 

## @micahredding        1 Mentions
[[202004202105]] Titling Zettels 

## @pryley        1 Mentions
[[202208021213]] Get a Path from a Plist 

## @prometheanhindsight        4 Mentions
[[202008222000]] Link Association Levels 
[[202008191036]] Locational proximity 
[[202109160802]] Questions To Ask When Zettelkasting 
[[202009150939]] What Permanent Notes Mean 

## @ritger        1 Mentions
[[202211071545]] The Dude Abides Online Zettelkasten 

## @riyangs        1 Mentions
[[202205260910]] Deep Thinking 

## @sfast       11 Mentions
[[202008300653]] A-Working With The Garage Door Up 
[[202101040552]] Better Than Spaced Repetition 
[[202211280856]] Depth of Processing 
[[202110021647]] F-Refactoring to clarify confusion 
[[202110041725]] F-Resolving gaps in understanding 
[[202106190520]] Feeling the numbers in my mouth 
[[201901081201]] Linking and Back Linking 
[[202203290856]] Prepping to Read a Book and Checking its Tenor 
[[202008220529]] S-ZK Didactics 
[[202204091530]] Sascha's Helpful Critique 
[[202110092108]] Science Of Fasting 

## @tamarwilner        1 Mentions
[[202110010514]] F-Choosing software 

## @thomasteepe        7 Mentions
[[202109291612]] 15 Experimental Thinking Tools 
[[202112120901]] Driver-driven tools for thought 
[[202109200717]] Ideation In A 4X4 Matrix 
[[202105221501]] Impact Of Larger And Smaller Amounts Of Information Visible 
[[202106040557]] Metaphors for Tool for Thought 
[[202105221643]] Questioning Information Density In Zettel 
[[202001031813]] Thinking about note problems 

## @zk_1000        1 Mentions
[[202103250815]] Put The Best Idea Up Front 

Books I'm reading or read this week:

  • McPhee, John. Draft No. 4: On the Writing Process. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2018.
  • Scdoris, R., & Steber, R. (2006). No end in sight: My life as a blind Iditarod racer (1st rev. ed). St. Martin’s Press. [[202406102027]] BookShare #YAL_research
  • Best, Laura (2013). Flying with a broken wing. Nimbus Publishing. Kindle #YAL_research
  • Bauermeister, Erica. The Lost Art of Mixing. G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 2013. Libby Audio #food
  • Prose, Francine, and Nanette Savard. Reading like a Writer [a Guide for People Who Love Books and for Those Who Want to Write Them]. HarperCollins, 2007.
  • Doczi, György. The Power of Limits: Proportional Harmonies in Nature, Art, and Architecture. Shambhala, 1981. [[202404231538]]

Zettelkasting Soundtrack:


The "My rolling ten-day zettel production" is produced by a script for attachment to my daily journaling template. I do my journaling in Bear to keep personal journaling separate from my knowledge work.

Let me know if you would like to see, discuss, or critique any of these notes.

My ten-day zettel production

I hope my contribution is helpful, and I hope someone has even better ideas.

Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I will try to remember this. I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.


  • @Will Can you share more about 20240626? I remember "Wicked Problems" from the Epstein book processing videos, and the IBIS connection there is intriguing

    Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/

  • @ctietze said:
    @Will Can you share more about 20240626?

    I don't remember Epstein discussing wicked problems. If you see a connection, please share it.

    My note is a definition of the term as I understand it. I wrote it in the format using the IBIS model.

    UUID: ›[[202406260935]]
    cdate: 06-26-2024 09:35 AM
    tags: #definition #IBIS

    What are Wicked Problems

    Subatomic: The fluctuating nature of wicked problems is complex and continuously evolving and best approached using IBIS.


    • What are 'wicked problems?'

    Key Ideas/Positions

    • "Wicked Problems" are significant nebulous issues that cause consternation in personal and social life.


    • Use IBIS when the problem is wicked! The list below will define if you are working on a wicked problem:

    • The problem definition seems vague or keeps changing.
    • The proposed solution creates a new, related problem.
    • There are a lot of “cooks” in the kitchen, and their numbers are increasing.
    • You can’t easily see the solution at the outset.
    • There are multiple solutions, but no consensus and no convergence.
    • The constraints on the solution keep changing.
    • There are lots of organizational issues. (p.12)

    See Also

    • Navigating Complex Ideas with IBIS [[202406231038]]
      • A technique that emphasizes dialogue and inquiry through the formal creation and exploration of questions, ideas, and arguments.

    References and Resources

    • ![IBIS Feild Guide](media/IBIS_FieldguideVer12012010.pdf)
    • “The IBIS Field Guide: Exploring Complexity.” CogNexus Institute, CogNexus Institute, n.d., www.cognexus.org/IBIS_FieldguideVer12012010.pdf.

    Will Simpson
    My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I will try to remember this. I must keep doing my best even though I'm a failure. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.

  • Very nice your mention script.
    I've tagged many of my notes with "person note" links and it's a good thing

  • edited July 5

    I'm returning to notemaking after almost 2-month long hiatus. A backlog has piled up. I also need to refactor great many notes for one of my PhD papers.

    It's hard to get back to the workflow, because of a psychological resistance. So I've been kinda procrastinating by reading this forum :) and/or turning fleeting notes into small permanent ones to achieve at least some progress.

  • edited July 6

    @Will I sloppily remembered, it was about "wicked environments", which overlap but aren't identical in nature!

    # 201909231536 Wicked learning environments
    "Wicked" learning environments (or domains) is a term coined by
    Hogarth[not citeable][#hogarth2001educ].
    - Opposite: Kind learning environments[[201909231550]]
    David Epstein's summary:

    [T]he rules of the game are often unclear or incomplete, there may
    or may not be repetitive patterns and they may not be obvious, and
    feedback is often delayed, inaccurate, or

    Also: "Martian tennis"
    [#hogarth2001educ]: Robin M Hogarth (2001): _Educating intuition_, Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
    [#epstein2019range]: David Epstein (2019): _Range. why generalists triumph in a specialized world_, New York: Riverhead Books.

    Referenced from Range, Chapter 1: The Cult of the Head Start

    Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/

  • edited July 7

    Today I've watched this:

    22 notes taken :-)

  • In my several months of experiment with analog-like digital systems, I had forgotten what a joy it is to move around paper and think by physically writing. How nice it feels to work offline by default---just me, pen, paper, and reading sources downloaded offline.

  • edited July 8

    I'm on a rabbit hole on the controversy around Jonathan Haidt's The Anxious Generation, as my own relationship with digital and social media technologies is a complex one. (Seeing as I'm a computer scientist who uses a dumbphone, yet has harsh critiques of some existing techno-critical works. I also work on fairness and diversity as objectives of algorithms for more humane computing.) I read the rebuttal in Nature by Odgers et al., and read the two camps' several surveys. As I am an engineer and not a psychologist, I can't say who is more correct to what extent, only to say that I am disappointed by anyone who pretends that the scientific consensus is absolute, which includes Haidt imself. (His own online and academic writings are less absolutist than the book.) This is the kind of messy reading that a bottom-up approach like a ZK excels at, is what I would say.

  • @jiwonac said:
    I'm on a rabbit hole on the controversy around Jonathan Haidt's The Anxious Generation

    I'm a sociologist.
    I've flipped through the book.
    1. Author has weak evidence about European countries past anglosphere and almost no evidence on the 90% of the world population. Yet he goes for global generalizations.
    2. Author doesn't really looks upon the changing models of childhood (jews and native americans in chapter 4 aren't enough). And his figure 4.1 obviously contradicts the main premise of the book.
    I'd say that the book is a weak one (like the majority of NYT bestsellers). Fear peddling is indecent.

  • @emps Much thanks, I'm leaning towards trusting Odgers et al. more.

  • edited July 9

    I'm with @emps regarding Haidt.

    Here are a few of my references, from Leiter Reports: a philosophy blog.

    The New Infantilism makes "The Atlantic" (leiterreports.typepad.com) ... in a long piece by a lawyer and a psychologist (Jonathan Haidt). They coin the apt term "vindictive protectiveness" to describe the behavior of the enforcers of this infantilization (anyone watching philosophy cyberspace will be familiar with the phenomenon). The article itself is a mixed bag, as one would expect given Haidt's involvement. But they do make some interesting points; for example: ...

    Also, see https://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2018/10/poseur-du-jour-moira-weigel-edition-.html.

    Post edited by ZettelDistraction on

    GitHub. Erdős #2. CC BY-SA 4.0. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein.

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