@Will said:
What ideas are you wrestling with this week?
I had a DropBox fiasco this week. For some reason, all my zettelkaten files, on my office mac suddenly have a 3 Feb 2023 timestamp, both the modified and the created. The files on my shop laptop remain unchanged. But I'm worried and have temporarily turned off DropBox syncing. I've started a super-top-secret coding project that uses these file parameters and am worried my file's timestamps will get mucked with.
Since I am sometimes a bit too optimistic in my use of Python scripts, I have gotten into the habit of regularly backing up the notes to optical storage (independent of the backup system).
It sometimes seems a bit paranoid, but when I read stories like Dropbox, I'm sure I'm doing the right thing.
@Will, I'm just now being asked (told) by Dropbox that my entire Dropbox collection must now be moved from /Users/ to ~/Library/CloudStorage. This is a phased rollout, some folks have seen it and some haven't yet. In looking at this, I see some reports that the date modified timestamp is being set to the moment of migration. I wonder if that's what happened to your files?
This seems like a difficult change to wrap my head around. I have a lot of automation all over my MacBook and iPhone built around Dropbox being in /Users/. File behavior in the new location seems significantly different than the old. Have you (or others) already dealt with this change?
@rrieke, thanks for the info. I had no idea this was in the works. I've been a happy DropBox user almost since the company's inception. One communication flop, and I'm thinking of abandoning ship. Like you, I have lots of automation tied to the finder location /Users/will/Dropbox/zettelkasten. This is mostly Keyboard Maestro macros. I have found a way to deal with this, but it is not pretty or easy. I have to edit, one at a time, 100 Keyboard Maestro macros. I'm taking this as a forced opportunity for housecleaning in the macro directory.
I must think more about how I might get my ZK synced over on iOS apps like 1Writer.
What cloud storage options do The Archive users use? Other ZK software offers its sync service, which differs from cloud storage. Seem a bit weird, though. I used DropBox primarily for file transferring and file sync between two or three computers, but I will be consolidating to one for now. So what do I need DropBox for?
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time. kestrelcreek.com
I looked for alternatives to DropBox and got excited about Sync. Better security, and they stick to the basic functionality that DropBox embraced early on--simple cloud storage, basic sharing, some versioning. BUT, I couldn't get it to work with 1Writer, a requirement for me.
I bit the bullet and went through DropBox's change. It turns out they create an alias in your original /Users/ location. So far, all my testing shows that everything works as it always did. Keyboard Maestro, iOS Shortcuts, complete syncing, The Archive, it all seems fine.
I don't like that I didn't see this in DropBox's documentation, and I innately don't like the increasing abstraction and complexity. But, except for my trust, it seems that nothing is broken after going through DropBox's change.
Good luck to others if you have to go through this exercise.
(@Will, this DID get me thinking about having the path to one's repository stored as a global variable in KM. Then it would only exist in one place, easily updatable. I might try this out in the future.)
@rrieke, thanks for the update. Did all your notes modification or creation timestamps change? If they did, as mine did, sorting in The Archive becomes worthless.
Here is a link to the Keyboard Maestro forum discussion about setting a path to a Global Variable.
I still don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about DropBox. It may be going the way of Evernote by losing focus by trying to be everything to everybody.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time. kestrelcreek.com
@Will, no, I forgot to mention that my timestamps also did not change, so nothing is broken for me. That's a relief!
I agree, I feel a little like DB has already gone down EN's path with feature bloat. That's why I was excited to research Sync.com. But the lack of integration with 1Writer was a dealbreaker for me.
Well, good luck if you have to address this with DB eventually. My experience was not trust-building, but it was not problematic for my environment in the end. And, thank you for pointing me to the KM forum regarding paths and Global Variables. I didn't see the link in your comment, but it gives me the right pointer to do some research.
Dropbox installs system plugins rather deeply in the OS, if it can. (And it can't anymore, or not much longer?, because Apple doesn't want it to.)
Maestral does a great job without any hacks. It just syncs your files between 2 folders. Like the Dropbox from the early 2010's did, without the bloat.
If you're somewhat lucky, you may be able to use Maestral on your "Feb 3rd" device and get the proper timestamps back.
Another word of caution, though: don't rely on your modification and creation dates too too much. It's a question of when, not if, they will be corrupted. New file system migration; emergency system recovery after a device failure; there's many reasons for timestamps to become useless.
@ctietze said:
Another word of caution, though: don't rely on your modification and creation dates too too much. It's a question of when, not if, they will be corrupted. New file system migration; emergency system recovery after a device failure; there's many reasons for timestamps to become useless.
I've been lucky and have been through this 3-4 times already with a new filesystem migration to a new computer. Sorting becomes a mess as The Archive responds to file system timestamps. This is one of the benefits of a ZK that uses a database to store and sort this type of info, a database is not dependent on the filesystem.
It seems this tread has "gone off the rails" from the beginning. I'll try something different on Thursday. The goal is to get you to share a little about what you are working on. This is not just me and what I'm doing but an opportunity for you to reflect and review the week in a public forum.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time. kestrelcreek.com
I have had enough trouble with Dropbox sync that I switched to OneDrive sync. None of the cloud storage providers are good for backup, incidentally, since they can terminate service for any reason.
GitHub. Erdős #2. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Alter ego: Erel Dogg (not the first). CC BY-SA 4.0.
Even when on-line storage was not available and we were confined to external drives for backup, I was never happy with just one. I usually ran three backups at three different locations. It was a bit of a chore to manage, but it gave great peace of mind. With a nod to Dropbox, I only run two external drives for backup at two different locations now
Comments
Since I am sometimes a bit too optimistic in my use of Python scripts, I have gotten into the habit of regularly backing up the notes to optical storage (independent of the backup system).
It sometimes seems a bit paranoid, but when I read stories like Dropbox, I'm sure I'm doing the right thing.
immer am Rand der Sammlerfalle
@Will, I'm just now being asked (told) by Dropbox that my entire Dropbox collection must now be moved from /Users/ to ~/Library/CloudStorage. This is a phased rollout, some folks have seen it and some haven't yet. In looking at this, I see some reports that the date modified timestamp is being set to the moment of migration. I wonder if that's what happened to your files?
See the DropBox help article and a forum thread for background.
This seems like a difficult change to wrap my head around. I have a lot of automation all over my MacBook and iPhone built around Dropbox being in /Users/. File behavior in the new location seems significantly different than the old. Have you (or others) already dealt with this change?
@rrieke, thanks for the info. I had no idea this was in the works. I've been a happy DropBox user almost since the company's inception. One communication flop, and I'm thinking of abandoning ship. Like you, I have lots of automation tied to the finder location /Users/will/Dropbox/zettelkasten. This is mostly Keyboard Maestro macros. I have found a way to deal with this, but it is not pretty or easy. I have to edit, one at a time, 100 Keyboard Maestro macros. I'm taking this as a forced opportunity for housecleaning in the macro directory.
I must think more about how I might get my ZK synced over on iOS apps like 1Writer.
What cloud storage options do The Archive users use? Other ZK software offers its sync service, which differs from cloud storage. Seem a bit weird, though. I used DropBox primarily for file transferring and file sync between two or three computers, but I will be consolidating to one for now. So what do I need DropBox for?
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
Here's an update.
I looked for alternatives to DropBox and got excited about Sync. Better security, and they stick to the basic functionality that DropBox embraced early on--simple cloud storage, basic sharing, some versioning. BUT, I couldn't get it to work with 1Writer, a requirement for me.
I bit the bullet and went through DropBox's change. It turns out they create an alias in your original /Users/ location. So far, all my testing shows that everything works as it always did. Keyboard Maestro, iOS Shortcuts, complete syncing, The Archive, it all seems fine.
I don't like that I didn't see this in DropBox's documentation, and I innately don't like the increasing abstraction and complexity. But, except for my trust, it seems that nothing is broken after going through DropBox's change.
Good luck to others if you have to go through this exercise.
(@Will, this DID get me thinking about having the path to one's repository stored as a global variable in KM. Then it would only exist in one place, easily updatable. I might try this out in the future.)
@rrieke, thanks for the update. Did all your notes modification or creation timestamps change? If they did, as mine did, sorting in The Archive becomes worthless.
Here is a link to the Keyboard Maestro forum discussion about setting a path to a Global Variable.
I still don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about DropBox. It may be going the way of Evernote by losing focus by trying to be everything to everybody.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
@Will, no, I forgot to mention that my timestamps also did not change, so nothing is broken for me. That's a relief!
I agree, I feel a little like DB has already gone down EN's path with feature bloat. That's why I was excited to research Sync.com. But the lack of integration with 1Writer was a dealbreaker for me.
Well, good luck if you have to address this with DB eventually. My experience was not trust-building, but it was not problematic for my environment in the end. And, thank you for pointing me to the KM forum regarding paths and Global Variables. I didn't see the link in your comment, but it gives me the right pointer to do some research.
@Will sorry to hear about your data problem!
I can recommend the 3rd party Dropbox client "Maestral": https://maestral.app/
Dropbox installs system plugins rather deeply in the OS, if it can. (And it can't anymore, or not much longer?, because Apple doesn't want it to.)
Maestral does a great job without any hacks. It just syncs your files between 2 folders. Like the Dropbox from the early 2010's did, without the bloat.
If you're somewhat lucky, you may be able to use Maestral on your "Feb 3rd" device and get the proper timestamps back.
Another word of caution, though: don't rely on your modification and creation dates too too much. It's a question of when, not if, they will be corrupted. New file system migration; emergency system recovery after a device failure; there's many reasons for timestamps to become useless.
Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/
I've been lucky and have been through this 3-4 times already with a new filesystem migration to a new computer. Sorting becomes a mess as The Archive responds to file system timestamps. This is one of the benefits of a ZK that uses a database to store and sort this type of info, a database is not dependent on the filesystem.
It seems this tread has "gone off the rails" from the beginning. I'll try something different on Thursday. The goal is to get you to share a little about what you are working on. This is not just me and what I'm doing but an opportunity for you to reflect and review the week in a public forum.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
Good point -- I extracted the pertinent posts into a new discussion
Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/
I have had enough trouble with Dropbox sync that I switched to OneDrive sync. None of the cloud storage providers are good for backup, incidentally, since they can terminate service for any reason.
GitHub. Erdős #2. Problems worthy of attack / prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein. Alter ego: Erel Dogg (not the first). CC BY-SA 4.0.
This can't be repeated often enough on the internet: Sync is not backup.
(So you're right either way @ZettelDistraction
)
Author at Zettelkasten.de • https://christiantietze.de/
Even when on-line storage was not available and we were confined to external drives for backup, I was never happy with just one. I usually ran three backups at three different locations. It was a bit of a chore to manage, but it gave great peace of mind. With a nod to Dropbox, I only run two external drives for backup at two different locations now