Upset with my own Zettelkasten - Seek help
It hasn't been more than 3 months since I started learning about Zettelkasten with the purpose of improving my financial analysis career.
I saw this one guy on YouTube who had a playlist of Zettelkasten, with the speciality that he also mixed some kind of note taking system called "CODE". I tried to copy his own Zettelkasten, and I'm gonna explain how mine works. I'd really appreciate any insights. Also, I must say that I extracty my info. exclusively from books, so I'm not interested in any method that focuses on many different type of sources (I would read those recommendations too, it's just not a preference).
Well, here's how my Zettelkasten works:
I have 5 type of notes: Source, Bibliographic, Literature, Permanent and Topic.
- Bibliographic: This is literally copy and pasting a text that I find useful. (Properties: Tags, source and page)
- Source: This is explaining an entire text, with my words. For example: If I read a chapter that lasts 3 pages and it's about a specific topic, I would read it and just paraphrase it into my own words. From this note, I extract as many literature notes as I can, and I citate each one on the bottom of it. (Properties: Tags, source and topic(s))
Literature notes: I use a note per idea. I write down the idea, and then I try to distill it (With "distill" I mean just writing down anything that comes to my mind about this idea. (Example: If I were talking about how the idea that my dog is beautiful because he has very beautiful eyes, I would say something like "The lighting usually plays a good role in the beauty of his eyes. If I look at his eyes under the dawn's lighting, they look even better".
See what I mean?Permanent notes: Once I made as many literature notes as I can thanks to a source note, I try to find connections between them so they're not just an idea, now they are two, and build a new idea. For example: If I had a note with the idea that "blue is a better appealing color to my eye because it is objectively relaxing" and another note saying something like "The color blue usually fits better on sofas than on chairs", I would create a permanent note saying: "Blue is a good color for sofas because it makes the sofa even more relaxing" (Something like that).
- Topic notes: I use them as a bridge to find connections between ideas. If two notes had nothing to do with eachother, but somehow have three topic notes in common, probably I can find a common ground between them and create a permanent note.
I also have subtopic notes because I use pretty broad topics as a topic note (Such as psychology, or technical analysis).
Now I'm gonna list all the things that I've found not so right:
- If, out of 5 pages, I only find useful a single phrase, I don't know if I should create a source note just for that same phrase or not. I don't know what to do anymore.
- I create WAY too few permanent notes. I just keep stacking literature notes but never do anything about it. I have like 10 permanent notes. That's it.
That's it. It's just that my upsett for my Zettelkasten has grown and I thought that this way I could make it better.
If you've read it all and you are up to give me some recommendations, I'd like you to know that you're literally the best. Cheers.
Howdy, Stranger!
Comments
I don't have any advice for you unfortunately, but your post did help crystalize an issue I have been having with my ZK. I need to be creating "permanent notes;" up to now I have just been linking my lit. notes together.
Inspired by @erikh I began a new, print ZK on 3x5 index cards this week to hold all my lit. notes for a final paper I'm working on. The limited space has helped me atomize my notes--and now synthesize out of necessity. This post also helped me transit from collecting information to using information.
Perhaps halting your intake or setting a specific writing goal/project will help give purpose/shape to your ZK?
Godspeed
@zosimawormphd I've never thought about it this way. Thank you!!
I'm glad it was helpful. I was feeling pretty frustrated with my ZK as well. I had become overly reliant on the full search and had gotten really lazy about processing notes and had just amassed a huge collection of quotes from my school textbooks.
The physical ZK made me slow down and record my thoughts in a more linear way. Also my brain works better when I can touch the information. Thank you for your note on permanent notes--I will definitely incorporate them into my work flow!
@notmeis
I'm having a difficult time thinking where to start or what to say that would prove useful to you.
Let me try by describing my Zettelkasten. I have one type of note, which I call a zettel. It has the following content:
I do not distinguish between all these different note types that you listed, which to me are just distractions. My job is to capture ideas in zettels, think about how a particular idea relates to other content in my ZK, and link content in obvious and novel ways to build a knowledge base. And each zettel has a format that is sufficient to write down all I want to know about it or to follow up on in the future.
Others on this forum recommend the use of Structure notes, which act to provide high level hierarchy to the ZK and an entry point to find zettels on a particular topic. I use them rarely and only in an organic way, i.e., it becomes obvious that one would be useful. I don't normally start with a Structure note and then branch various zettels off of it. I prefer to not impose hierarchy in my ZK.
Others also recommend the use of external software, such as Zotero, to track references. I have done that in the past but don't find it necessary now. But if your ZK was primarily for research purposes or to document work-based knowledge, then a reference manager would be helpful and it can generate the references to insert in your zettel, using whatever format your prefer.
After 5 years of work, I have about 500 zettels in my ZK, maybe 10 of which are Structure notes. Others, in the same amount of time, have produced thousands of zettels, usually because they are driven by one or more projects. I am older, not in a rush, and with only one real purpose to drive my ZK. So, I'm just saying the rate of generating zettels will vary from person to person, depending on what they want to accomplish.
Perhaps your use of all these note types is distracting you from the true purpose of your ZK? Maybe simplifying your ZK method would allow you to focus on and achieve your true purpose, which is (after all) to build a knowledge base that is intimately tied to what you have learned by all your intense study and practice. Focus on study, learning, and gaining knowledge - not on the (often not very helpful or even distracting) mechanics of note-taking recommended by so-called experts.
Do you have a particular output for your notes? I've seen a ZK tends to feel stagnated and unproductive, even unfamiliar if there's nothing for you to motivate you to write. It's ok to collect even notes in your own words, but I believe the magic happens when you start to try to write something and then take a deep dive into your notes.
If not, try creating a blog only for you, or like a journal where you explore your ideas.
How do you expect the ZK improve your career? Can you give an example?
Looks like Tiago Forte: https://youtu.be/_UvFA659Y2I?t=495
This looks like a mixture of various systems, where these types have specific meanings. I recommend to untangle those systems.
To simplify your system, you could try reducing your system to three types:
Your thoughts about blue sofas would be zettels.
Your thoughts about your dog would also be zettels. They have no connections to books. You could write a note with the title "my dog is beautiful" and fill it with a beautiful description of your sentiment.
If in doubt, write the phrase in your book note that contains everything about the book that contains the five pages. You'll find it again, when you look at the book note.
If you don't need zettels, don't write zettels. Many people organize their notes without zettels. Personally I also have fewer zettels than other notes. But…
There are good reasons why the Zettelkasten method emphasizes writing zettels in a particular style. It can improve learning and understanding and coming up with new ideas.
It all depends on what you want to achieve with your note-taking.
@harr
The purpose of my Zettelkasten is to help me approach the market in a technical and psychologic way. I want it to help me design a strategy and system, but also deal with this strategy in case I have to change it a bit. Besides, I want to track how I manage my own operations in a mental way, and notice if I could do something better or not.
"Bibliographical notes are typically short notes with bibliographical data, like author, title, year, etc. As a general principle I'd write one note for every book." This book is very long (+500 pages), plus I always feel like I should take notes of everything. I'm not sure if one single note could handle it all.
"Topic notes are also know as concept notes. They usually work like Wikipedia, where every note/article defines and explains a particular concept." Well, I used topic notes like structure notes. Their only purpose was help me find connections between topics easily. I definetely didn't use them as concept notes. Should I?
"If you don't need zettels, don't write zettels. " If I'm being honest, I barely know what Zettels are. I do know that they're some kind of index card, but that's it. I've never looked into it.
Even though your recommendation sounds a little complex and wayy different than my actual Zettelkasten, I think that checking it out is a great idea. Where did you get your info. from? Thank you.
@Jvet I never though about it until now. I just though that it could help me, but I didn't have a purpose at all. Now I do. Thanks.
Lots of reading. Classics like Sönke Ahrens' How to take smart notes about Zettelkasten. Many books about reading techniques and the psychology of learning, like Barbara Oakley's Learning how to learn.
Many discussions on Reddit and Discord. But almost no Youtube. I find it difficult to learn from videos.
Lots of practice. I tried various tools and methods. Now I'm very happy with the app Obsidian and a system, that is inspired by personal wikis, classic reading techniques, evidence-based learning techniques and Luhmann's Zettelkasten.
I recommend to try out stuff. Get rid of anything that doesn't work for you. Keep only what does work for you.
There's no right or wrong way to take notes. Don't let yourself distract too much from youtubers and bloggers with strong opinions. They do them, you do you.
Everyone has different needs, but I believe it's correct to say we all benefit from having systems. The universe is constructed from chaos. Our understanding of the chaos requires order. Or, perhaps that explains my unraveled thinking.
I've come to appreciate a note system such as a ZK is a critical foundation for an outline, and that whether or not I want to hate outlines, I can't write anything lengthy without one.
A Zettelkasten becomes sort of a bibliography for outlines.
Comments appreciated. My ideas are not exactly well focused yet.
Good news! That should make a huge difference.
Happy to help, there are several platforms to create a blog that are really cheap (not talking about WP or Ghost). Even Word can be useful for output.