@Edmund said:
I’ve learned that tags are best thought of as specially designated search terms.
I choose using tags for Zettelkasten with two different goals in mind:
to build up an index
to define clusters
To be sure I understand, are you using tags to specify the notes that you MAY place in a structure note in future time -- or as replacement for structure notes? If you use both, could you elaborate how? Note: I'm very loosely defining structure note that primarily contains links to notes with a common property.
I can see how this would work as pre-structure-note annotation: Suppose you have a collection of notes N with common property p. I.e., the set of notes {p(n)==true for all n in N} you can then tag with #p and these notes then will have induced "backlinks" to build your structure note S.p.
Esentially @Vinho summarizes my hesitancy using tags if they are not transient stand-ins.
@Vinho said:
...Instead of tagging all the central zettels on composting with #composting, I could create a structure note for the concept "Composting" where I collect the links to all those zettels. Using structure notes has the additional advantage of providing space for thoughts on how these different zettels are related. But if I replaced tags like the ones mentioned above with structure notes – what sensible uses would remain for the tags?
Tags no doubt are flexibile, I'm wondering if anyone has implemented block-level tags and in what way , or link-tags.
Would the enhanced granularity of intranote item tagging of object (block, link, title, citation) help or hinder the proliferation problem? For example obsidian allows block_id to be user defined. This may be worth its own discussion .
I do use interstitial tags. Tags in the body of the note. Block-level tags. The Archive will 'goto' a tag when tags are included in the search query. Tags and structure notes have different functions—tags group items. Structure notes organize notes in a pattern that fosters understanding. Tags are collections of notes on a similar topic. Structure notes make sense of a collection of notes on a topic.
For example, it is easy to create a search for #composting AND India. It is more difficult to scan the Composting structure note for references to India unless it was already called out in the structure note. Likewise, it would be nearly impossible to assess the importance of worm farms with community cohesion in India unless you looked at the detailed interconnection in a structure note.
My tags are designed to help with searching. They make notes accessible to my future self. I'm not sure what is meant by "Would the enhanced granularity of intranote item tagging of object (block, link, title, citation) help or hinder the proliferation problem?" Help me understand what a "proliferation problem is."
This note was found doing the search #quote AND zettel. You can tell by the highlighted words in the screenshot.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time. kestrelcreek.com
@bradfordfournier I use tags regularly - can post more about that in a while. I just wanted to make one point - I find tags are most useful when I have a lot of very specific tags. The more zettels contain a particular tag, the less useful that tag becomes (for my purposes). So I regularly check to see how many zettels contain a particular tag and in most cases, if there are too many (say more than 10 or so), I break the tag down into several, more specific tags, and distribute them more selectively in those zettels.
are you using tags to specify the notes that you MAY place in a structure note in future time
-- or as replacement for structure notes
Creating structure notes may be a use case, but primarily tags help me to filter notes for finding new insights. Tags are not a replacement for structure notes. In Obsidian they are a great help for working with DataView.
A structure note is actively designed, a cluster of notes with equal tags is growing without actively providing a planned context.
Edmund Gröpl
100% organic thinking. Less than 5% AI-generated ideas.
I can see how this would work as pre-structure-note annotation: Suppose you have a collection of notes N with common property p. I.e., the set of notes {p(n)==true for all n in N} you can then tag with #p and these notes then will have induced "backlinks" to build your structure note S.p.
This is what I do sometimes: I just tag with a structure note in mind. But most of the time, I prefer to create the structure note right from the start because it gives me a surface an which I can visualise my thinking.
While reading Bob Doto's book, A System for Writing, the question came to me: "What do my notes look like?" Looking closer, I could see that my notes contain different types of information. And what also seems obvious is that the process in my note box depends on the type of information in my notes! So I use tags to identify types of information to support further processing of my notes. My statement:
Structuring notes and tagging them based on the type of information they contain can significantly enhance how we process and utilize the knowledge in our system.
When we label notes according to their content type, it helps us quickly understand how to handle them during retrieval and future processing. For instance, differentiating between a theory, an observation, a question, or a connection allows us to make better decisions about:
What actions to take next (e.g., integrate an idea, explore a question further).
How to link related notes more effectively.
How to surface the right notes when tackling a project or solving a problem.
Let’s consider how we might use these tags in our Zettelkasten:
Capture: When we come across a new concept (e.g., in Kahneman’s work), we might create a note with the tag #type/theory to signify that it's an important idea.
Process: If that theory leads us to an observation in our own work, we create a new note tagged #type/observation and link it back to the original theory note.
Integrate: As we build connections, we use the #type/connection tag to highlight where disparate ideas intersect, leading to new insights.
Expand: If a theory sparks a new question, we jot it down and tag it as #type/question, setting the stage for further research or exploration.
Act: If something is immediately actionable, we use #type/task to ensure it doesn’t get lost in the sea of theoretical notes.
Have a look at my concept map. It’s based on my trains of thought from reading Doto’s book till finding the connection between “information types” and “processes” within my Zettelkasten.
Post edited by Edmund on
Edmund Gröpl
100% organic thinking. Less than 5% AI-generated ideas.
Right now I only use tags to indicate the language I am writing a note in (I use about three –albeit closely related– languages in daily life). Any other tag just seemed to decay into disuse. Instead I use "keyword" notes. and explicitly mention what I believe are relevant notes or questions or.. whatever.
example of a messy note in progress:
Life as a game of preventing, mitigating, and tolerating failure [[202411150934]]
Preventing and mitigating failure [[202410080016]]
============================
Life as a game of negotiation and collaboration [[202408211020]]
Negotiation as persuasion through conversation [[202408051505]]
Collaborating as aligning behaviours and priorities [[202408211025]]
============================
See Also
Life [[202005251836]]
============================
There is no such thing as the "Meaning of Life" [[202406151050]]
Relevant Questions
What is the meaning of life? [[202408201627]]
============================
The purpose of life is to keep enjoying it [[202406150931]]
There is no such thing as the "Meaning of Life". Life is a game. It is a game that goes on long after an individual's death. The goal of the game is to continuously enjoy it, as long as possible.
Comments
To be sure I understand, are you using tags to specify the notes that you MAY place in a structure note in future time -- or as replacement for structure notes? If you use both, could you elaborate how? Note: I'm very loosely defining structure note that primarily contains links to notes with a common property.
I can see how this would work as pre-structure-note annotation: Suppose you have a collection of notes N with common property p. I.e., the set of notes {p(n)==true for all n in N} you can then tag with #p and these notes then will have induced "backlinks" to build your structure note S.p.
Esentially @Vinho summarizes my hesitancy using tags if they are not transient stand-ins.
Tags no doubt are flexibile, I'm wondering if anyone has implemented block-level tags and in what way , or link-tags.
Would the enhanced granularity of intranote item tagging of object (block, link, title, citation) help or hinder the proliferation problem? For example obsidian allows block_id to be user defined. This may be worth its own discussion .
I do use interstitial tags. Tags in the body of the note. Block-level tags. The Archive will 'goto' a tag when tags are included in the search query. Tags and structure notes have different functions—tags group items. Structure notes organize notes in a pattern that fosters understanding. Tags are collections of notes on a similar topic. Structure notes make sense of a collection of notes on a topic.
For example, it is easy to create a search for #composting AND India. It is more difficult to scan the Composting structure note for references to India unless it was already called out in the structure note. Likewise, it would be nearly impossible to assess the importance of worm farms with community cohesion in India unless you looked at the detailed interconnection in a structure note.
My tags are designed to help with searching. They make notes accessible to my future self. I'm not sure what is meant by "Would the enhanced granularity of intranote item tagging of object (block, link, title, citation) help or hinder the proliferation problem?" Help me understand what a "proliferation problem is."
This note was found doing the search #quote AND zettel. You can tell by the highlighted words in the screenshot.
Will Simpson
My zettelkasten is for my ideas, not the ideas of others. I don’t want to waste my time tinkering with my ZK; I’d rather dive into the work itself. My peak cognition is behind me. One day soon, I will read my last book, write my last note, eat my last meal, and kiss my sweetie for the last time.
kestrelcreek.com
@bradfordfournier I use tags regularly - can post more about that in a while. I just wanted to make one point - I find tags are most useful when I have a lot of very specific tags. The more zettels contain a particular tag, the less useful that tag becomes (for my purposes). So I regularly check to see how many zettels contain a particular tag and in most cases, if there are too many (say more than 10 or so), I break the tag down into several, more specific tags, and distribute them more selectively in those zettels.
Creating structure notes may be a use case, but primarily tags help me to filter notes for finding new insights. Tags are not a replacement for structure notes. In Obsidian they are a great help for working with DataView.
A structure note is actively designed, a cluster of notes with equal tags is growing without actively providing a planned context.
Edmund Gröpl
100% organic thinking. Less than 5% AI-generated ideas.
This is what I do sometimes: I just tag with a structure note in mind. But most of the time, I prefer to create the structure note right from the start because it gives me a surface an which I can visualise my thinking.
I am a Zettler
Why Tags Based on Information Types?
PDF at GitHub: https://github.com/groepl/Take-Useful-Notes/blob/main/Assets/idea_to_note_2024-11-14.pdf
While reading Bob Doto's book, A System for Writing, the question came to me: "What do my notes look like?" Looking closer, I could see that my notes contain different types of information. And what also seems obvious is that the process in my note box depends on the type of information in my notes! So I use tags to identify types of information to support further processing of my notes. My statement:
When we label notes according to their content type, it helps us quickly understand how to handle them during retrieval and future processing. For instance, differentiating between a theory, an observation, a question, or a connection allows us to make better decisions about:
Let’s consider how we might use these tags in our Zettelkasten:
#type/theoryto signify that it's an important idea.#type/observationand link it back to the original theory note.#type/connectiontag to highlight where disparate ideas intersect, leading to new insights.#type/question, setting the stage for further research or exploration.#type/taskto ensure it doesn’t get lost in the sea of theoretical notes.Have a look at my concept map. It’s based on my trains of thought from reading Doto’s book till finding the connection between “information types” and “processes” within my Zettelkasten.
Edmund Gröpl
100% organic thinking. Less than 5% AI-generated ideas.
Right now I only use tags to indicate the language I am writing a note in (I use about three –albeit closely related– languages in daily life). Any other tag just seemed to decay into disuse. Instead I use "keyword" notes. and explicitly mention what I believe are relevant notes or questions or.. whatever.
example of a messy note in progress:
Life as a game of preventing, mitigating, and tolerating failure [[202411150934]]
============================
============================
See Also
============================
Relevant Questions
============================
The purpose of life is to keep enjoying it [[202406150931]]
There is no such thing as the "Meaning of Life". Life is a game. It is a game that goes on long after an individual's death. The goal of the game is to continuously enjoy it, as long as possible.
============================
Life as a story [[202405191751]]
See Also